Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

theatlantic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

351–360 of 418 posts

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#351

Post by zajio1am »

jacooper wrote: post #332
bscphil wrote: post #188

I liked this piece a lot. However, I think one failing, which is also tripping up many of the commenters here, is this insistence on ordering one's relationships. Who's my number one? The moment you ask that, you end up with the social norm that one's sexual-romantic partner must be the number one. So you have a ton of people in the comments here who are very defensive of that norm, and you have people like those in…

> I have a cohabiting sexual partner. That's a girlfriend. Its like saying I have mechanical machine which uses 4 tires to move forward, its a car.

Even disregarding gender issue (it may also be boyfriend, or one wants to use gender-neutral term), girlfriend/boyfriend generally implies romantic involvement, while cohabiting sexual partner could be just cohabiting FWB without romantic part.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#352

Post by SoftTalker »

bumby wrote: post #216
0xr0kk3r wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"seldom duplicated elsewhere" I hear this same sentiment from marines, cops, fireman, and fraternity members. I also hear it from Masons, Elks, Shriners, etc. I don't understand why men have to think they've "discovered" something about lifelong bonds that is exclusive to just men's clubs. My guess is that men are taught not to have strong emotional bonds with anyone but their mothers or wives, and then think it is s…

One of the things that distinguishes the first three groups in your set is shared hardship. Many in the military (and elsewhere) think this is a necessary component to form those kinds of tight bonds. So it's not that they are "allowed" to have these feeling under life-threatening situations, it's that dire circumstances foster those feelings.

Fraternity hazing is (was) supposed to create those bonds, but it's been drastically curtailed at most universities, and I'm not sure how well it ever worked (was never in a fraternity). In many cases it was just "here drink all this liquor and if it doesn't kill you, we'll initiate you"

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#353

Post by aeneasmackenzie »

kodah wrote: post #322
aeneasmackenzie wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only relevant part of the article is the quote from the Council of Chalcedon: > Following the holy Fathers, we unanimously teach and confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ: the same perfect in divinity and perfect in humanity, the same truly God and truly man, composed of rational soul and body; consubstantial with the Father as to his divinity and consubstantial with us as to his humanity; "like us…

Sure, I agree that it's dogma within the church, that's why I mentioned the Holy Trinity. The holy trinity wasn't known to Jesus at the time of his life or death. It became apparent that he, the holy spirit, and god were the same post resurrection. That's what separates Jesus from other canonical characters like saints and disciples - he was destined to become one because it was God's manifestation of himself. The ot…

> The holy trinity wasn't known to Jesus at the time of his life or death. …

If this was beaten into you the school you went to was not Catholic or even Chalcedonian, which is a low, low bar. This appears to be some form of the heresy of kenoticism and your parents deserve a refund.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#354

Post by emodendroket »

forty wrote: post #335
emodendroket wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I were thinking about moving (as I’ve done a few times since marriage) my wife and my kid would be coming along and nobody else would. So it seems pretty natural.

You can live together with someone, have kids and move with your kids without marriage, those things seem orthogonal to me.

In this case let’s consider “marriage” a stand-in for “committed, long-term romantic relationship between two people” since that’s really what’s being compared throughout the discussion.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#355

Post by thomastjeffery »

valianteffort wrote: post #340
thomastjeffery wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still trying to find the waves of that revolution. Maybe I just need to get the fuck out of Utah... I could really use an aftershock.

It sounds like you're more of a sex pest that places far too much significance on the act rather than the relationship before it.

Because I have a different perspective than you, I am a pest.

This is precisely the issue at hand.

I'm not pestering you for sex; in fact I am not pestering anyone at all! Yet here you are pestering me for expressing an interest in it.

--

Am I a pest for leaving the Mormon Church? Am I a pest for drinking alcohol at home?

Whatever happened to the religious freedom y'all keep telling me about? Can I have some?

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#356

Post by pseudalopex »

doubled112 wrote: post #237
pseudalopex wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your statistics are for age 26.[1] And 100 miles is not halfway across the country but not nearby. [1] https://www2.census.gov/ces/wp/2022/CES-WP-22-27.pdf

I'm in Canada and 750 km from my family and friends I grew up with. Same province. Ontario is vast. 160km sounds pretty close. Near by, even. I can make that drive happen at a much higher frequency than a 750 km drive.

160 km is radius not diameter. But even 160 km is 4 hours roughly for a round trip. Maybe you would drive it every week for a very close friend. Or several friends in a 16 km radius 160 km away from you. But probably you would move closer if they were at the center of your life.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#357

Post by valianteffort »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #355
valianteffort wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you're more of a sex pest that places far too much significance on the act rather than the relationship before it.

Because I have a different perspective than you, I am a pest. This is precisely the issue at hand. I'm not pestering you for sex; in fact I am not pestering anyone at all! Yet here you are pestering me for expressing an interest in it. -- Am I a pest for leaving the Mormon Church? Am I a pest for drinking alcohol at home? Whatever happened to the religious freedom y'all keep telling me about? Can I have some?

> Am I a pest for leaving the Mormon Church

No but there does seem to be a strong correlation between people who were raised in strict religious households and a strong predilection towards sex. I kind of already assumed that you were ex-religious before you said so.

You are free to believe and do whatever you like, but don't presume that everyone else is a prude because they don't look at sex the way you do. Or that your perspective should be the norm. People overwhelmingly choose and hope for monogomy despite society largely accepting casual sexual encounters as "normal". There's no telling the extent of the damage that has done to people's ability to pair bond successfully and develop interpersonal relationships.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#358

Post by emodendroket »

nemo44x wrote: post #289
emodendroket wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But many of us didn’t, or didn’t have a great youth network in the first place. So you know, hopefully that’s not the only possibility.

Yeah, that's a conundrum to be sure. It sort of feels logical that if you weren't successful at making friends during the prime years for that (youth, young adulthood) then there's not much reason to believe you'll have more success in the more difficult years. For example, I sort of maintain 2 friend tiers. Tier 1 friends are the "friends for life" I've made along the way. We all maintain a chatter and we may not se…

> I think joining an organization is your best bet. Getting involved in something and becoming an active member in it. You need something that forms a common bond with other people looking for that sort of thing.

This is a great way to make friends (well, sometimes. Not always) but I think most of them are going to be "type 2" friends in your schema. You're probably right, not that many people are looking for new, deep friendships in adulthood if they're not transplants. But... that kind of seems like a flaw in TFA's premise as well. You can't just unilaterally decide you're going to orient your life around your friends if your friends aren't on the same page.

To be fair I don't think I was "unsuccessful" at making friends when I was younger but for various reasons I didn't end up being able to stay in the same place as them and most friendships kind of wither if it's a whole trip that has to be planned to see someone.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#359

Post by emodendroket »

DamonHD wrote: post #331
emodendroket wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a different situation if Mom and Dad are not on the same page and completely unwilling to cooperate with each other.

That seems to be a mum and dad problem though, the kids may merely be collateral...

Sure but the kids are going to catch on and be unhappy, eventually.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#360

Post by thomastjeffery »

valianteffort wrote: post #357
thomastjeffery wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I have a different perspective than you, I am a pest. This is precisely the issue at hand. I'm not pestering you for sex; in fact I am not pestering anyone at all! Yet here you are pestering me for expressing an interest in it. -- Am I a pest for leaving the Mormon Church? Am I a pest for drinking alcohol at home? Whatever happened to the religious freedom y'all keep telling me about? Can I have some?

> Am I a pest for leaving the Mormon Church No but there does seem to be a strong correlation between people who were raised in strict religious households and a strong predilection towards sex. I kind of already assumed that you were ex-religious before you said so. You are free to believe and do whatever you like, but don't presume that everyone else is a prude because they don't look at sex the way you do. Or that…

> You are free to believe and do whatever you like, but don't presume that everyone else is a prude because they don't look at sex the way you do.

I won't. I'll assume they are a prude when they call me a "sex pest".

> Or that your perspective should be the norm.

I just have to accept the inverse. Got it.

--

> People overwhelmingly choose and hope for monogomy despite society largely accepting casual sexual encounters as "normal".

I would like to live in that society please. Oh right, you want to vilify it because casual sex offends you; and you are not alone, which is precisely the source of my troubles.

I have plenty of deep and fulfilling interpersonal relationships. I'm quite good at that, as it happens.

--

What the fuck do you want from me? Do you want me to pretend I actually crave committed monogamy? Wouldn't that make me the actual pest?

That doesn't sound any different from asking my trans friends to pretend they are cis or my gay friends pretend they are hetero.

I would much rather be honest. Unfortunately, this social situation you are holding over my head is making it a lot easier to just stay silent. Thanks for that.

Post reply on HN