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What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

theatlantic.com

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Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#211

Post by maerF0x0 »

willio58 wrote: post #155
BJBBB wrote: post #120

This is an edge case. Marines in particular, and the military members in general, will form a special bond that can seldom be duplicated elsewhere. And that has been my experience. I was among a group of six that met at the schoolhouse after boot camp. We did not get sent to the same units, but we were all PCS'd to the same base. Two of us (not myself) made a career of the corps, and the others went to school after s…

Externally, it seems this bond could be explained by: 1. Everyone is together, away from distractions, and unable to leave easily for months on end 2. You are working toward shared goals 3. You are friendly toward each other It's a recipe for a strong bond. Another example of this is famous bands. They're constantly traveling for work, together, trying to write more music and become more famous as they go.

I'd extend the shared goals bit to include difficulty. Physically challenging, life risking, risk of failure etc... I've seen far too many "team bonding" setups fit all 3 of your criteria, but fail dismally to result in bonding.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#212

Post by pseudalopex »

cm2012 wrote: post #142
baq wrote: post #5

Euro perspective: sounds like an american problem of people moving halfway across the country instead of usually settling down nearby with their highschool friends doing mostly the same thing.

Most Americans live within driving distance of where they grew up. 60% within 10 miles, 80% within 100 miles.

Your statistics are for age 26.[1] And 100 miles is not halfway across the country but not nearby.

[1] https://www2.census.gov/ces/wp/2022/CES-WP-22-27.pdf

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#214

Post by throwawaaarrgh »

Imagine being so developmentally hindered that you need an Atlantic article to tell you to prioritize long-standing platonic friendships and avoid codependency, like this is some revelation. "You don't have to abandon your friends to date someone!" Uh, yeah...?

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#215

Post by red_admiral »

BJBBB wrote: post #120

This is an edge case. Marines in particular, and the military members in general, will form a special bond that can seldom be duplicated elsewhere. And that has been my experience. I was among a group of six that met at the schoolhouse after boot camp. We did not get sent to the same units, but we were all PCS'd to the same base. Two of us (not myself) made a career of the corps, and the others went to school after s…

This used to be much more common, for men too. You don't have to go too far back in history to find a time when intense male friendships were not at all unusual, complete with holding hands and writing love letters to each other.

Of course, some of these were gay relationships, hiding in plain sight pretending to be socially acceptable non-sexual intense male friendships. But gays wouldn't have been able to hide that way if the concept of a socially acceptable intense male friendship hadn't existed in the first place!

Maybe the Marines and the like are the few holdouts in modern society where this really positive part of pre-modern masculinity is still alive and well.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#216

Post by bumby »

0xr0kk3r wrote: post #172
BJBBB wrote: post #120

This is an edge case. Marines in particular, and the military members in general, will form a special bond that can seldom be duplicated elsewhere. And that has been my experience. I was among a group of six that met at the schoolhouse after boot camp. We did not get sent to the same units, but we were all PCS'd to the same base. Two of us (not myself) made a career of the corps, and the others went to school after s…

"seldom duplicated elsewhere" I hear this same sentiment from marines, cops, fireman, and fraternity members. I also hear it from Masons, Elks, Shriners, etc. I don't understand why men have to think they've "discovered" something about lifelong bonds that is exclusive to just men's clubs. My guess is that men are taught not to have strong emotional bonds with anyone but their mothers or wives, and then think it is s…

One of the things that distinguishes the first three groups in your set is shared hardship. Many in the military (and elsewhere) think this is a necessary component to form those kinds of tight bonds. So it's not that they are "allowed" to have these feeling under life-threatening situations, it's that dire circumstances foster those feelings.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#217

Post by vel0city »

artificialLimbs wrote: post #84
nightowl_games wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Communicate? Yes. Socialize? No. It's easier to socialize when you are physically beside someone. There are less kids playing in the street. They are no arcades. As a parent you must bring your child to other children. You must encourage or mandate extracurricular activities. We are not a society where children are naturally surrounded by other children in their 0-4 years. We are not a society where adults are natura…

>> We are not a society where children are naturally surrounded by other children in their 0-4 years. That's shocking to hear. We live out in the sticks, about 25 minutes from the nearest town (of ~10k people) and we make sure our kids get some social time a couple of times every week. From homeschool coop groups to random meet ups/activities planned by parents via Facebook to farmer's markets, library/museum trips,…

> From homeschool coop groups to random meet ups/activities planned by parents via Facebook to farmer's markets, library/museum trips, churches, parks, visiting neighbors

All of these other than visiting neighbors are exactly the things nightowl means when saying they're not naturally surrounded. You're having to arrange the homeschool co-op, you're arranging playdates on Facebook, you're taking them to the famers markets and museum trips. You're facilitating them going to these places, probably by way of car.

Comparatively, growing up most of my childhood days other than school and one weekly extracurricular most of my time was just naturally playing with the kids in the neighborhood. We'd all just play in each other's yards, we would just go to the playground ourselves, etc. These days you would have CPS called.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#218

Post by nathan_compton »

adamrezich wrote: post #169
nathan_compton wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Catholicism calls for one to commit to at least one Sacrament of Service: Holy Orders and/or Matrimony. " And this isn't?

I listed one of many beliefs of the faith, whereas you claimed to boil the entire faith down to a single phrase—I'm having trouble understanding the supposed contradiction.

There isn't any contradiction, per se, its just that observing that Catholicism says something about holy orders or marriage doesn't actually say anything about what Catholicism also says about relations outside of these sacraments, which is the question at hand here.

While it certainly is a gross summary, saying that Catholicism calls on people to sacrifice (everything, if necessary) for any person, is accurate and pertinent to the idea that it only suggests this for one's spouse. Being willing to sacrifice for your spouse is necessary but not sufficient to be an optimal catholic.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#219

Post by thomastjeffery »

vorpalhex wrote: post #183
uoaei wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd be surprised what happens when you are kind and a good communicator with a healthy social life. I thought the same thing when I was younger but now I'm in the prime of my dating and casual sex life. I try not to hold tightly to expectations but can see this path in life leading to some new close friendships with the possibility of closer partnerships ahead. The trick is to prioritize the people around you, rath…

> can see this path in life leading to some new close friendships with the possibility of closer partnerships ahead. Just a few more pulls and the big payout will come. You've spent so many quarters on the slot machine, it'll definitely pay out at any moment. > thought the same thing when I was younger but now I'm in the prime of my dating and casual sex life. I had a very charismatic friend who ended up in this situ…

> Just a few more pulls and the big payout will come. You've spent so many quarters on the slot machine, it'll definitely pay out at any moment.

You sound like someone who has won at gambling.

Your success is not the only possible or valid path.

What you have shared may be wise advice, but advice itself is never a guarantee.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#220

Post by andrewclunn »

Used to be family, then people became estranged from their parents and many didn't have kids. Then it was romance and marriage, but fewer people can even find those, let alone keep them into their old age. Friendship is the next in the line of "good enough" bonds people might accept to avoid completely loneliness. Of course there's always AI and pets as the new "true companions" for 2040. Readers of the Atlantic seem like exactly the sort of people who will need this copium going forward.
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