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Own-goal football (2022)

generalist.academy

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Re: Own-goal football (2022)

#151

Post by freetime2 »

shusaku wrote: post #134
kodt wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The end of American Football games is so frustrating because of this, with a team just constantly taking a knee to run out the clock. It makes the last 2 minutes of the game useless. Constant fouls in Basketball hoping the opposing team will miss a free throw is another frustrating tactic that drags the last 2 minutes on forever, in what is usually a forgone conclusion anyway.

On the contrary, the clock management makes American football games more exciting, because you know if your team can just get one first down you will win. The tension heightens because you see the finish line. But it does lead to unsatisfying situations where a person layer intentionally goes down instead of scoring because he doesn’t want to give the ball back to the other team. I agree with your basketball complain…

> But it does lead to unsatisfying situations where a person layer intentionally goes down instead of scoring because he doesn’t want to give the ball back to the other team.

I even like this part because it shows situational awareness, and the willingness of a player to put team goals ahead of their own stats. But I could see how it would be disappointing for fantasy football players, for example.

Re: Own-goal football (2022)

#152

Post by speed_spread »

manquer wrote: post #140
NikolaNovak wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a period in world rally championship where it was beneficial not to win day one or day two of a 3 day championship. This resulted in hilarious but rational situations where top racers would race like maniacs for the entire day, then 200meters before the end of the a last stage of the day slow down and crawl for say 12 seconds, so they would come a second behind somebody else and not lead the pack the next d…

why drive like maniacs only to slow down at the end ? might as well drive slower throughout the stage ? and be most aggressive on day 3 ?

Give a good show, keep sponsors happy?

Re: Own-goal football (2022)

#153

Post by chongli »

Kuiper wrote: post #121

This brings to mind one of my favorite TV shows, One Outs. It's about the strategies that a clever and "unsportsmanlike" player brings to a baseball team, exploiting the rules while violating the spirit of the game. As one example: in order for a baseball game to be considered valid, both teams must play 5 innings. If the weather is bad and teams are unable to continue due to rain, a wants their runners to be declare…

MLB has added a pitch clock to speed up games. 30 seconds between batters, 15 seconds between pitches with the bases empty, 20 seconds with runners on. This has sped up games by an average of 26 minutes!

Re: Own-goal football (2022)

#154

Post by pcchristie »

kevinmchugh wrote: post #53
PaulHoule wrote: post #25

Stuff like this is why I fell in love with soccer. It didn't come quickly. I was not very engaged with youth soccer as a kid although looking back it was one of very few "safe spaces" for me as a kid where being bullied wasn't a problem. I came to see youth soccer as part of declining social mobility in the U.S. If you were playing little league maybe you could dream of being Babe Ruth but there just wasn't any ladde…

Relegation and promotion are just such good systems that all sports should have them

Realistically, you can't run a draft/salary cap with promotion/relegation though, and I think those systems are better at ensuring equalisation. In Europe, the Premier League is the "best" competition because realistically 5 teams have a chance of ever winning the league. In other leagues like France, Italy and Spain, they are duopolies (at best).

Re: Own-goal football (2022)

#155

Post by turboponyy »

manquer wrote: post #140
NikolaNovak wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a period in world rally championship where it was beneficial not to win day one or day two of a 3 day championship. This resulted in hilarious but rational situations where top racers would race like maniacs for the entire day, then 200meters before the end of the a last stage of the day slow down and crawl for say 12 seconds, so they would come a second behind somebody else and not lead the pack the next d…

why drive like maniacs only to slow down at the end ? might as well drive slower throughout the stage ? and be most aggressive on day 3 ?

It would still be important to rank high, just not win.

Re: Own-goal football (2022)

#156

Post by freetime2 »

kodt wrote: post #148
shusaku wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, the clock management makes American football games more exciting, because you know if your team can just get one first down you will win. The tension heightens because you see the finish line. But it does lead to unsatisfying situations where a person layer intentionally goes down instead of scoring because he doesn’t want to give the ball back to the other team. I agree with your basketball complain…

I don't think anyone rooting for the losing team in that situation likes it though. They want them to go for a play and hope for the miracle turnover.

Having been in the situation of rooting for the losing team many times, it's fine with me. Fans understand how the clock works (and commentators also keep people informed) - and that if their team doesn't get a stop on the next play, the game is effectively over. And the rules are the rules - sometimes they work out in your favor, sometimes they work against you. As long as they are applied fairly, I'm happy.

Re: Own-goal football (2022)

#159

Post by HideousKojima »

Kuiper wrote: post #121

This brings to mind one of my favorite TV shows, One Outs. It's about the strategies that a clever and "unsportsmanlike" player brings to a baseball team, exploiting the rules while violating the spirit of the game. As one example: in order for a baseball game to be considered valid, both teams must play 5 innings. If the weather is bad and teams are unable to continue due to rain, a wants their runners to be declare…

Sounds a lot like the episode of South Park where the kids don't want to stay in the little league playoffs so they can enjoy their summer break, so they're trying to intentionally lose. Unfortunately so are all the other teams in the playoffs.

Re: Own-goal football (2022)

#160

Post by voldacar »

munificent wrote: post #13
divan wrote: post #7

Sports is one of the most fascinating and underexplored examples of Goodhart's law (collapsing correlation between the metric and a goal). One of the most widely known examples of this is a London 2012 badminton scandal, when tournament design led to misaligned incentives for teams (it was beneficial for them to lose a game, to meet with less formidable opponent known beforehand). But there are dozens of such cases a…

The meta-game of game design: how do you design a game whose mechanics lead to incentives that align with your intentions is a fascinating area. It also has deep connections to policy design in politics. In the political arena, it gets so much more complex because you have disagreement on intentions and people deliberately obfuscating their intentions. So you've got people arguing over legislation who are trying to a…

It's bold to assume that politics is about policy design.
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