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Molly White Tracks Crypto Scams. It’s Going Just Great

wired.co.uk

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Re: Molly White Tracks Crypto Scams. It’s Going Just Great

#301

Post by ryan_lane »

leashless wrote: post #288
topranks wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fundamental issue remains though. It’s all that legal framework off-chain that implements and enforces property rights in the real world. Having the data on chain doesn’t really help anything. All that matters is who the authority choose to see as the owner. They may as well operate the registry as they can choose to ignore it if they wish.

Having data on chain changes everything . https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Speech-M... -- head of civil justice for the UK discusses smart contracts and commerce. Read points six through ten here. This is entirely the point: having the data and contracts on chain is hugely important. If you don't understand this, you don't understand critical features about how everything really works.

6 - 10 don't offer any useful information, except to say "blockchain is hot hot hot". You're only further showing that your grift is confidence.

Re: Molly White Tracks Crypto Scams. It’s Going Just Great

#302

Post by AnonCoward42 »

ninepoints wrote: post #287
AnonCoward42 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What difference you mean, aside from the lack of a regulatory framework, pseudonymity (and paradoxically, lack of privacy), lack of recourse in the face of user error, and custodial issues? Is anonymity the issue? Cash is anonymous, but you also say that crypto is not private, which makes it now good or bad in your eyes? The opportunity for recourse has nothing to do with a currency. A currency cannot give you reco…

Having every transaction recorded in a public append only but otherwise immutable ledger does not afford the privacy choice you have with fiat. People using fiat are not losing their life savings when they forget their bank passwords, nor are they sending money to the wrong address and losing money irrecoverably.

> Having every transaction recorded in a public append only but otherwise immutable ledger does not afford the privacy choice you have with fiat.

This would be good or bad for scams? For me this sounds worse for scams. Regarding choice: You could use Monero/XMR if you want to use it like (fungible,mostly anonymous) cash.

> People using fiat are not losing their life savings when they forget their bank passwords, [...]

This is not a like for like comparison. If you forget your wallet somewhere, your money is potentially gone as well. On the other hand if you have your crypto in a bank (custodial), it is the exact same as fiat (with the same caveats).

> [...] nor are they sending money to the wrong address and losing money irrecoverably.

This is maybe the only part that is really different here. Fiat doesn't have the capability to "send" at all, but banks have. The non-custodial part about crypto has the property of higher responsibility. If you have it somewhere custodial you could have the same properties as with fiat (properties not inherent to the currency).

Re: Molly White Tracks Crypto Scams. It’s Going Just Great

#303

Post by gitfan86 »

scottiebarnes wrote: post #300
gitfan86 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly what I was talking about earlier in the thread. Crypto people bring up gold out of no where. I have never invested in gold. You are projecting the idea that I don't understand why USD and Gold are bad investments.

Why does gold have a $13tr USD market cap? Why do governments hoard billions of dollars of gold bars in military protected bunkers? Does it have something to do with store of value, and difficulty in debasing gold?

Yes some people like to buy gold because it seems like it may hold its value to those people. That is not a new concept that crypto invented. People bought Baseball Cards and Bennie Babies long before crypto in the hopes that those items would hold up in value.

Re: Molly White Tracks Crypto Scams. It’s Going Just Great

#304

Post by leashless »

ryan_lane wrote: post #301
leashless wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having data on chain changes everything . https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Speech-M... -- head of civil justice for the UK discusses smart contracts and commerce. Read points six through ten here. This is entirely the point: having the data and contracts on chain is hugely important. If you don't understand this, you don't understand critical features about how everything really works.

6 - 10 don't offer any useful information, except to say "blockchain is hot hot hot". You're only further showing that your grift is confidence.

*from one of the most senior judges in the UK* -- not "hot" but "has a ton of utility in the conduct of real commerce."

It hits different coming from people that handle the legal frameworks for trillions of dollars of transactions, you know?

Re: Molly White Tracks Crypto Scams. It’s Going Just Great

#305

Post by scottiebarnes »

gitfan86 wrote: post #303
scottiebarnes wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does gold have a $13tr USD market cap? Why do governments hoard billions of dollars of gold bars in military protected bunkers? Does it have something to do with store of value, and difficulty in debasing gold?

Yes some people like to buy gold because it seems like it may hold its value to those people. That is not a new concept that crypto invented. People bought Baseball Cards and Bennie Babies long before crypto in the hopes that those items would hold up in value.

So, I think you understand computers really well. I think you probably have a good enough understanding of investing, economics.

What I think you're missing the understanding of what money is, and the history of money. This is why gold gets brought up.

In the last some thousand years gold evolved as a world standard for trade. Why? It had some good properties; physically tough and lasting, common enough for people to find / rare enough to be difficult to debase (holds value), you can melt it and shape it (divisible), etc. Gold permeated all societies because it was the "winner" of precious metal monies, and good technology tends to spread, giving it network effects.

Your US dollars were originally just paper notes promising redemption for gold at your bank. We traded those notes around because we had enough trust in a system now for it to be convenient for us.

At some point, governments decided it wanted to they wanted more control over money/economy, and essentially forced a fiat standard on the population. This is the great monetary experiment we are living now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_system

If you can contextualize what money is, the history of money dating back thousands of years, then you can start to see how crypto has a lot of advantages over metal money, as well as fiat money.

Re: Molly White Tracks Crypto Scams. It’s Going Just Great

#306

Post by leashless »

ross_st wrote: post #290
leashless wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am CEO of Mattereum. 1) it takes four months on average to transfer real estate in the UK. It’s about the same in most other counties. 2) with our system that is reduced to one KYCAMLCTF/source of funds check, and an atomic swap on Ethereum. Two days and most, and instant if you pre-clear the money. 3) getter a property legally ready for that transaction takes some time of course, but that work is mostly reused in…

1) Did you read the Smarter Contracts report I linked to for yourself? There's a full chapter on how the process of conveyancing will be significantly streamlined by digital ID, digital signatures, automation and interoperability between data stores. No blockchain required. 2) By KYCAMLCTF/source of funds, I'm assuming you're referring to what happens when someone buys ETH on an exchange? The problem is that only cov…

"I see absolutely no upside to tokenising property interests as NFTs and plenty of downsides"

People have said things like this about every new technology -- both the successes and the failures. Will it succeed or fail? We shall see -- I think the former, you think the latter, that's fine: you have no skin in the game and are entitled to your opinion.

But here's the bottom line: there's no electronic trading system for real estate right now, other than things like REIT equity on exchanges.

So whoever cracks that wins big. Is that a reasonable risk for a commercial enterprise to take?

Absolutely.

Is the first one done the same as the five thousandth one? No, we'll learn, improve, refine. We'll build commercial infrastructure and commercial partnerships.

But the prize is large enough to do some actual work on, because if we're right, we wind up winning big.

If the legals are a little confusing, I suggest going over it with a lawyer, assuming you aren't one!

Re: Molly White Tracks Crypto Scams. It’s Going Just Great

#307

Post by leashless »

ross_st wrote: post #290
leashless wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am CEO of Mattereum. 1) it takes four months on average to transfer real estate in the UK. It’s about the same in most other counties. 2) with our system that is reduced to one KYCAMLCTF/source of funds check, and an atomic swap on Ethereum. Two days and most, and instant if you pre-clear the money. 3) getter a property legally ready for that transaction takes some time of course, but that work is mostly reused in…

1) Did you read the Smarter Contracts report I linked to for yourself? There's a full chapter on how the process of conveyancing will be significantly streamlined by digital ID, digital signatures, automation and interoperability between data stores. No blockchain required. 2) By KYCAMLCTF/source of funds, I'm assuming you're referring to what happens when someone buys ETH on an exchange? The problem is that only cov…

https://www.lawcom.gov.uk/project/smart-contracts/

You are a little behind the times on the status of digital signatures, smart contracts etc.

Our project The Law Commission was asked by the Lord Chancellor to include work on smart legal contracts as part of our Thirteenth Programme of Law Reform. In November 2019, the UK Jurisdiction Taskforce (“UKJT”) published its legal statement on cryptoassets and smart contracts. The UKJT Legal Statement concluded that, in principle, smart contracts are capable of giving rise to binding legal obligations, enforceable in accordance with their terms.

Following this, the Ministry of Justice asked us to undertake a detailed analysis of the current law as it applies to smart legal contracts, highlighting any uncertainties or gaps, and identifying such further work as may be required now or in the future.

Advice to Government We published our advice to Government on smart legal contracts on 25 November 2021. It was informed by the detailed responses we received to the call for evidence, published in December 2020.

We have concluded that the current legal framework in England and Wales is clearly able to facilitate and support the use of smart legal contracts, without the need for statutory law reform.

Re: Molly White Tracks Crypto Scams. It’s Going Just Great

#308

Post by gitfan86 »

scottiebarnes wrote: post #305
gitfan86 wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes some people like to buy gold because it seems like it may hold its value to those people. That is not a new concept that crypto invented. People bought Baseball Cards and Bennie Babies long before crypto in the hopes that those items would hold up in value.

So, I think you understand computers really well. I think you probably have a good enough understanding of investing, economics. What I think you're missing the understanding of what money is, and the history of money. This is why gold gets brought up. In the last some thousand years gold evolved as a world standard for trade. Why? It had some good properties; physically tough and lasting, common enough for people to…

The most important money throughout history and still today is debt. "Debt the first 5000 years" is a good book on the topic. A shorter form explanation that is pretty good is "The DEBT Cycle Explained By Ray Dalio" on YouTube

Again I'm still not sure why you are trying to convince me that USD is a bad investment. I already said it was at the beginning of this thread.

Re: Molly White Tracks Crypto Scams. It’s Going Just Great

#309

Post by scottiebarnes »

gitfan86 wrote: post #308
scottiebarnes wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, I think you understand computers really well. I think you probably have a good enough understanding of investing, economics. What I think you're missing the understanding of what money is, and the history of money. This is why gold gets brought up. In the last some thousand years gold evolved as a world standard for trade. Why? It had some good properties; physically tough and lasting, common enough for people to…

The most important money throughout history and still today is debt. "Debt the first 5000 years" is a good book on the topic. A shorter form explanation that is pretty good is "The DEBT Cycle Explained By Ray Dalio" on YouTube Again I'm still not sure why you are trying to convince me that USD is a bad investment. I already said it was at the beginning of this thread.

Good, then you're on the path to figuring out what a better form of money could be.

Re: Molly White Tracks Crypto Scams. It’s Going Just Great

#310

Post by bentcorner »

super256 wrote: post #291
wiredfool wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But once you're in Wise, you have a US acct/routing number (from Evolve, iirc).

I just went straight to the "transfer" button and ended up with this form: https://imgbox.com/QY8GQFhQ

I get something like that if I'm trying to send Euros from my Wise account (and there's an "Inside Europe"/"Outside Europe" toggle). Are you able to exchange your EUR to USD within Wise first?

https://imgbox.com/ADDZxVXh

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