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Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

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Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#191

Post by codegeek »

ryan-c wrote: post #179
codegeek wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. American health "care" is the best. Problem is with the "administration" that for basic stuff, there is crazy price gouging and no free market competition. It is ridiculous that you have to involve insurance in every visit to a doctor AND it's tied to your employer being able to provide something.

I got a bill from a lab last year that was for about $1200, and when insurance denied it as out-of-network (it wasn't, the lab and the insurance company had some billing procedure issues) it was less than $100 somehow. Out of stubbornness, I fought with the lab for months to bill it correctly, and eventually got them to write it off by emailing the CEO.

Sums up our healthcare "administration" well. Unfortunately, I have done this a few times myself and what a colossal waste of time.

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#192

Post by red-iron-pine »

danwee wrote: post #108
lisasays wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As they none-too-delicately state in the same blurb: "We are hiring worldwide." So clearly that's what they're aiming for.

But they are not hiring worldwide. Their openings clearly state: UK (and remote, within UK). So, I don't understand how they are hiring in the UK with such low salary ranges

40-60k British pounds puts you near a max of $80,372.82 USD. still underperforming but not insane for junior devs not in California

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#193

Post by qwytw »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #161
qwytw wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So are you saying that socialism can only exist if it's imposed and maintained by the state? (i.e. no democratic society can be socialist by definition?)

>So are you saying that socialism can only exist if it's imposed and maintained by the state? I 'm not sure I understand the question? Socialism is a political philosophy on how the state should operate and what it should permit. It IS a description of the states behavior. Democracy has nothing to do with it. You can have a socialist country with a king, or with direct democracy and no leader. You can't have a social…

Well by Democracy I implicitly meant freedom of speech, independent judiciary, protection of private property and individual civil rights etc. most of those things are not really compatible with state imposed socialism.

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#194

Post by qwytw »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #182
s1artibartfast wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So are you saying that socialism can only exist if it's imposed and maintained by the state? I 'm not sure I understand the question? Socialism is a political philosophy on how the state should operate and what it should permit. It IS a description of the states behavior. Democracy has nothing to do with it. You can have a socialist country with a king, or with direct democracy and no leader. You can't have a social…

I think some of the confusion is from how the word is used now. People refer to systems which apply socialist thinking as socialism, even if the governance is not a state government. For example, let's say a theoretical union takes guidance from the political philosophy of socialism, and requires union members to contribute the highest percentage of their salary as union dues, that they can legally get away with. Let…

> Let's say workers are paying 90% of their salaries in union dues. The union can then use those dues to support the union members in various ways.

Realistically that seems to be more or less completely unsustainable without some use of force. e.g. if individuals who contribute more than they pay in are allowed to opt-out the system quickly collapses. That's how universal healthcare, state pension/social systems work etc. so it's not necessarily a bad thing. However in general socialist "corporations" are generally incapable of competing in a "free" market so they can only exist when they are supported by the state or private/capitalist enterprises are banned or strongly restricted in one way or another.

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#195

Post by red-iron-pine »

pydry wrote: post #91
Ancalagon wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what is the proportion of YC startups that have had successful exits where the _employees_ received millions from their equity grants?

Not enough to justify an $80k salary.

Not in SV, for sure. If you're in KY it's pretty good. Can get a decent house for $190k, and as much land as you want. Gotta live in Kentucky tho.

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#196

Post by pcthrowaway »

qwytw wrote: post #194
pcthrowaway wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think some of the confusion is from how the word is used now. People refer to systems which apply socialist thinking as socialism, even if the governance is not a state government. For example, let's say a theoretical union takes guidance from the political philosophy of socialism, and requires union members to contribute the highest percentage of their salary as union dues, that they can legally get away with. Let…

> Let's say workers are paying 90% of their salaries in union dues. The union can then use those dues to support the union members in various ways. Realistically that seems to be more or less completely unsustainable without some use of force. e.g. if individuals who contribute more than they pay in are allowed to opt-out the system quickly collapses. That's how universal healthcare, state pension/social systems work…

> if individuals who contribute more than they pay in are allowed to opt-out the system quickly collapses

Sure, that's why I said this was theoretical. I wasn't using it as a demonstration of how socialism can be sustainable without a state, I was using it to demonstrate a system that might be described as socialist even though it's stateless.

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#197

Post by paddim8 »

MontyCarloHall wrote: post #28
mindondrugs wrote: post #11

> this salary wouldn't attract strong talent even in medium cost-of-living countries (like portugal/spain). median salary for a developer in Spain is $30,000 a year[1], so 50-80k would easily place them in the upper 10% of the scale. I think americans need to really reflect on how inflated american dev salaries are. [1] https://www.payscale.com/research/ES/Job=Software_Developer/...

>I think americans need to really reflect on how inflated american dev salaries are. Or maybe people everywhere else need to really reflect on how underpaid they are. It’s not like the revenue of tech companies is lower outside of the US, so why isn’t more of it ending up in developers’ pockets, where it should go?

Western Europe has something called income equality, you should try it some time. Or well, more or it.

A cashier in Sweden earns a very liveable wage, quite close to the average wage, while a programmer earns maybe 75% more than that, if not twice as much. That's already a significant difference. I'm a student and get 1200€ a month (not only is university free, we also get paid to study). With this, I have my own apartment with my own kitchen and all and am still able to save 500 a month. When I start working and get an average salary (the starting salary for programmers is about the same as the average salary for the entire population), I will spend a bit more, but still probably have 1-1.5k€ left every month. That is a lot. Then after some years, that would increase by a thousand or so. Why should I expect more money than that? I don't deserve more than that.

Housing is expensive here too, but not nearly as bad as in the US, so we simply don't need as high salaries. In Sweden, things like preschools are also heavily subsidized and university completely free, which is beneficial if you have children.

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#198

Post by benhurmarcel »

MontyCarloHall wrote: post #28
mindondrugs wrote: post #11

> this salary wouldn't attract strong talent even in medium cost-of-living countries (like portugal/spain). median salary for a developer in Spain is $30,000 a year[1], so 50-80k would easily place them in the upper 10% of the scale. I think americans need to really reflect on how inflated american dev salaries are. [1] https://www.payscale.com/research/ES/Job=Software_Developer/...

>I think americans need to really reflect on how inflated american dev salaries are. Or maybe people everywhere else need to really reflect on how underpaid they are. It’s not like the revenue of tech companies is lower outside of the US, so why isn’t more of it ending up in developers’ pockets, where it should go?

Your salary don't depend on revenue, but on how much it would cost to replace you.

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#199

Post by askafriend »

yanslookup wrote: post #27

One take I haven't seen.. It's sort of like when otherwise successful "name brand" organizations offer unpaid internships (let's not get in to whether that's legal or not.) This selects for the type of people that can afford an arrangement like that. Put another way, already wealthy founders, supported by wealthy investors, also want wealthy employees, or at least the demographic that fits already wealthy people.

There is not a single name brand engineering organization that does not pay its interns extremely well.

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#200

Post by s1artibartfast »

qwytw wrote: post #193
s1artibartfast wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So are you saying that socialism can only exist if it's imposed and maintained by the state? I 'm not sure I understand the question? Socialism is a political philosophy on how the state should operate and what it should permit. It IS a description of the states behavior. Democracy has nothing to do with it. You can have a socialist country with a king, or with direct democracy and no leader. You can't have a social…

Well by Democracy I implicitly meant freedom of speech, independent judiciary, protection of private property and individual civil rights etc. most of those things are not really compatible with state imposed socialism.

Democracy doesn't imply or require any of those things. A majority can democratically vote to suspend every single one.

You can have a democracy with 51% ruling and 49% in chattel slavery and poverty (but having a right to vote

I would agree that socialism isn't compatible with private property and civil rights as we commonly understand them today (in the US).

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