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Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

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Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#161

Post by s1artibartfast »

qwytw wrote: post #132
s1artibartfast wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what the terms socialism and capitalism mean. They describe the process, not end result. You can have full blown worker coops in the capitalist system, the question is if they are state mandated or not. The definition of socialism isn't any sytem with a good outcome for workers.

So are you saying that socialism can only exist if it's imposed and maintained by the state? (i.e. no democratic society can be socialist by definition?)

>So are you saying that socialism can only exist if it's imposed and maintained by the state?

I 'm not sure I understand the question? Socialism is a political philosophy on how the state should operate and what it should permit. It IS a description of the states behavior.

Democracy has nothing to do with it. You can have a socialist country with a king, or with direct democracy and no leader.

You can't have a socialist state without socialist laws and rules.

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#162

Post by mattpallissard »

mindondrugs wrote: post #11

> this salary wouldn't attract strong talent even in medium cost-of-living countries (like portugal/spain). median salary for a developer in Spain is $30,000 a year[1], so 50-80k would easily place them in the upper 10% of the scale. I think americans need to really reflect on how inflated american dev salaries are. [1] https://www.payscale.com/research/ES/Job=Software_Developer/...

> I think americans need to really reflect on how inflated american dev salaries are.

Shhh, don't tell nobody.

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#163

Post by _8j50 »

dahwolf wrote: post #160

Always funny to see SV people not understanding SV, thinking the rest of the world is underpaid. SV is an planetary anomaly. Hundreds of billions (if not more) of capital free to invest in highly risky undertakings. That's why you earn 200K or more. An enormous surplus of capital with a high tolerance for failure. That type of capital simply does not exist anywhere else in the world. And this only strengthens the SV…

That is ridiculous. What SWEs get paid is not dissimilar to what pilots and engineers get paid (with experience) in the US. People get paid what it costs to replace them. You're just trying to justify SV "enterpreneur" greed with that logic. If you can pay someone 10k/yr in the US you probably would even with a $20M valuation and 10 person head count. The insane SV valuations are also unheard of and all these marvelous tech companies are also not being born in London or Vietnam or some other place, they are in the US and they also pay that much just to starve the competition of talent.

This is why even as an SWE making $300k you should think seriously about forming a nation wide union and this is also why they're copying each other with layoffs because their profit and what they pay employees is increasing at a similar rate.

"Well 200k is a lot of money by comparison but multiple 10M+ rounds for 5+ years with no profit is totally normal" lol.

You all should also fight agressively for laws that prevent companies from outsourcing talent, unless you haven't learned from the 2000s.

To all of you founders and execs, go to countries with cheaper salaries and bigger taxes, nobody is stopping you.

The nerve on these rich people, it's not enough they evade taxes and pay less than small businesses but they also have to nickle and dime their own employees!

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#164

Post by dahwolf »

_8j50 wrote: post #163
dahwolf wrote: post #160

Always funny to see SV people not understanding SV, thinking the rest of the world is underpaid. SV is an planetary anomaly. Hundreds of billions (if not more) of capital free to invest in highly risky undertakings. That's why you earn 200K or more. An enormous surplus of capital with a high tolerance for failure. That type of capital simply does not exist anywhere else in the world. And this only strengthens the SV…

That is ridiculous. What SWEs get paid is not dissimilar to what pilots and engineers get paid (with experience) in the US. People get paid what it costs to replace them. You're just trying to justify SV "enterpreneur" greed with that logic. If you can pay someone 10k/yr in the US you probably would even with a $20M valuation and 10 person head count. The insane SV valuations are also unheard of and all these marvelo…

You're making so many incoherent disconnected points that I'm not sure what you're actually trying to say.

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#166

Post by roland35 »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #51
MontyCarloHall wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think americans need to really reflect on how inflated american dev salaries are. Or maybe people everywhere else need to really reflect on how underpaid they are. It’s not like the revenue of tech companies is lower outside of the US, so why isn’t more of it ending up in developers’ pockets, where it should go?

> It’s not like the revenue of tech companies is lower outside of the US, so why isn’t more of it ending up in developers’ pockets, where it should go? What you're forgetting is that taxes differ quite a lot from country to country. That, and cost of living is a factor too. If food and housing costs half as much, then even though you're paid less, you're not really poorer for it. I think many American developers are…

I don't think anyone is blind to how expensive SF real estate is?? I mean at least every single person I know who lives there talks about it!

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#167

Post by JB_Dev »

codegeek wrote: post #118
JB_Dev wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much, yea. You easily make enough money to pay for COBRA. Then if that runs out you can get (an admittedly bad) plan from the marketplace. But it all comes back to point (1) - the amount you make more than makes up for it.

"Pay for COBRA" Yes but COBRA can cost upto 102% of the cost which was mostly covered by your employer before. Now that you are laid off, you have to pay the whole thing (sometimes employers are nice to still cover when they lay you off but mostly they don't). For a family of 4, it can easily be $2500/Month depending on the state you live in.

You missed this critical part “you easily make enough money to…”

If you are making >$250K year, an extra $2500/month is not a significant bump. Especially as it is temporary while you are between jobs. Temporary could even be a year or longer.

Factor that cost into your emergency savings and draw down when you need to. You still end up massively ahead of a developer outside the US.

I am not endorsing the US system - it is objectively garbage. But the point is that the pay difference more than makes up for the downsides in healthcare.

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#168

Post by sloaken »

mindondrugs wrote: post #11

> this salary wouldn't attract strong talent even in medium cost-of-living countries (like portugal/spain). median salary for a developer in Spain is $30,000 a year[1], so 50-80k would easily place them in the upper 10% of the scale. I think americans need to really reflect on how inflated american dev salaries are. [1] https://www.payscale.com/research/ES/Job=Software_Developer/...

It is a very compound issue, that people look at as just a simple X vs Y.

You have to consider:

Benefits, taxes (both yours and the companies), cost of living, exchange rate fluctuations, and hours worked per year.

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#169

Post by roland35 »

hef19898 wrote: post #56
felipellrocha wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think americans need to really reflect on how inflated american dev salaries are. This statement makes no sense. We have a much higher cost of living here than in Europe.

SV vs. Berlin? Sure. Kentucky's hinterland vs. Paris? No, you don't. Fun fact, FAANG salaries in Europe depend on the lovation you are hired at, with differences between, e.g., Munich and Berlin for the same job levels. It is funny, because companiesbreally understood how salaries and cost of living are connected, and still every discussion on HN regarding dev salaries ignores this simple favt and only compares absol…

It's called "cost of market" at my company. Cost of market doesn't necessarily equal cost of living.. for example I make about 20% less in the Midwest than I would in New York or SF, but still way more than if I worked in London. But my cost of living is waaay less than London and also way less than 80% of SF

Re: Ask HN: How come YC startups offering <80k$/year?

#170

Post by pokepim »

dahwolf wrote: post #164
_8j50 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is ridiculous. What SWEs get paid is not dissimilar to what pilots and engineers get paid (with experience) in the US. People get paid what it costs to replace them. You're just trying to justify SV "enterpreneur" greed with that logic. If you can pay someone 10k/yr in the US you probably would even with a $20M valuation and 10 person head count. The insane SV valuations are also unheard of and all these marvelo…

You're making so many incoherent disconnected points that I'm not sure what you're actually trying to say.

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