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EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

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Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#141

Post by usernew »

lisasays wrote: post #129
usernew wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I say this as an anti-GOP American who has lived a year an a half in Ukraine, has friends I currently financially support in Ukraine, and thinks Russia should be economically turned into North Korea: Belarus, the country, is "within spitting distance" of Kiev. There has always been tight integration between their armies, as well as open borders. There have Always been Russian soldiers close to Kiev, because that's wh…

The only difference between the people in charge of Ukraine, and the people in charge of Russia, is Ukraine doesn't have the military to go threaten the world - and if they did, they would. I don't buy this assessment at a all. Based on everything from their origins, to their voluminous public statements, to their actions, to their deportment and vibe -- not to mention the basic historical record of the two countries…

So, I will admit - my Ukraine-experience-based Opinion about Ukraine may be wrong. It is my opinion. Have you, um, been there, not like a tourist? Like rented an apartment, dealt with their government offices and low level officials? How about just managers and people in offices and on the street?

"to their voluminous public statements" - I'm sorry - what??? My comment was literally about many of their public statements being propaganda, and your reply is... based on their public statements? What do you think about China's public statements that American soldiers brought covid to China?

The people who get in power there, are mostly toxic pieces of power tripping corrupt crap. You should at least - if you're only basing your experience on reading internet news while sitting on your couch - look into the history of their police and politicians and officials. They execute people or lock them away for life when they get in the way. They literally beat gay people to death for holding hands - something I've personally watched. They are very close to that same drunken macho trash that is Russians.

That, sir, is my opinion. I am not asking you to buy that assesment, and I'm not here to convince a random internet stranger of jack. The whole purpose of my post, is so people like you, who form strong opinions based only on things you Chose yourself to read, step back and realize you're behaving just like the redneck self-brainwashing crap taking over this country.

>I'm not sure what innuendo

The innuendo is not there. The accusation that someone took a normal event and spun it to keep themselves angry, and is trying to spread that bs on the internet, is there, in plain text.

>gathering in Crofton

no one gathered anywhere. that was literally the whole point of that simple comparison paragraph. now if someone were to spin it as a gathering, that would be a bad actor spreading conspiracy theories. Get it now? of course you don't.

Have a good life buddy. bbye, and enjoy your velcro shoes. that's another one you won't get, and the cause for not getting it, is the cause of the velcro shoes.

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#142

Post by ffgjgf1 »

Ekaros wrote: post #46
ffgjgf1 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not taking steps to decrease Europe’s reliance on Russia fossil fuels in the years after Putin took power was immensely idiotic. Both politically and economically. At this point there was no non-painful way to do this.

Now if we only could get rid of USA and dollar as well. For truly independent and free Europe. The actions on SWIFT system proved that they cannot be trusted as reliable partners.

What actions and why? Weren’t the sanctions widely supported by most European countries?

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#143

Post by The_Colonel »

yogthos wrote: post #126
The_Colonel wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of funny to hear Russians argue how sanctions utterly failed, they are hurting the West, do not hurt Russia, on the opposite only strengthen it ... There's a saying "never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake", yet it seems Russians do exactly that again and again?

This isn't the Russians arguing, this is mainstream western pres saying this.

Hand-picked to fit your agenda. No need to link the sources which disagree, right?

Also, this link selection is provided by a Russian, so the point still stands.

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#144

Post by The_Colonel »

fy20 wrote: post #131
The_Colonel wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The price now is the same as 2 years ago, before the big price hike: https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/eu-natural-gas The prices will likely jump again in the fall/winter (but likely nowhere near to the 2022 winter).

Why is the gas price still €2.40 per cubic meter where I live then? That's nearly 10x what it was two years ago.

Depends, maybe you have a long term fix price contract. Energy providers are slow to lower the prices, because they have long term contracts (to be fair, they were often slow to increase the prices as well - I got my first increase literally a month ago).

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#145

Post by The_Colonel »

yogthos wrote: post #125
The_Colonel wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no other customer for the gas Russia used to sell to Europe. There are no pipelines from western gas fields to the east.

CNN article I linked in another disagrees with you.

The CNN article doesn't mention natural gas at all.

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#146

Post by The_Colonel »

yogthos wrote: post #123
DaedPsyker wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That appears to show that the volume has returned but not its price. "The revenue is still down 43% from a year ago, the IEA said, as Russia is forced to sell its barrels to a more limited pool of customers who can negotiate greater discounts."

That doesn't actually follow. Had the west not got into a sanctions war with Russia, then they might've never increased their output. The end result is that the profits have not been affected. More importantly, what actually counts is the relative damage. It's pretty clear that EU economy has been affected far more severely than Russian economy. IMF projects Russia to actually have growth this year, while there is a…

> IMF projects Russia to actually have growth this year, while there is a recession projected across EU states.

IMF bases their projection on data provided by Russian government agencies. So this works only if you trust Russian government to not fumble data.

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#147

Post by vegardx »

wilburTheDog wrote: post #95
vegardx wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India imports crude oil from Russia and refines it into products that Europe wants, like diesel as you mentioned. You forgot to mention that Europe imported almost all diesel from Russia.

As of January this year Russia provided about 1/4 of the diesel imports for Europe. That's down from pre-war levels. https://www.spglobal.com/commodityinsights/en/market-insight... "Although still high, Europe's dependence on Russian diesel has almost halved from pre-war levels when the region sourced 46% of its diesel imports from Russia, the data showed."

As of January the sanctions weren't in full effect. Like the article mentions the ban on refined oil products wasn't in full effect before 5th of February.

Russia has lost the single largest market they have for refined oil products, like diesel and gasoline. This is being replaced by increased production in European countries and emerging markets, like India. India is buying crude oil from Russia at a discounted price. Around a quarter of the cost of refined oil products is based on price of crude oil. Russia has more or less gutted it's entire refined oil industry. India, amongst others, are picking up the pieces.

So no, your assessment that Europe is pretending that they're not doing business with Russia is completely missing the mark.

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#148

Post by ajsnigrutin »

reducesuffering wrote: post #136
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what is a good reason to attack a country? Just to compare to other wars and how we treated the countries that started them?

Since you’re Serbian and clearly referring to Kosovo… How about a war costing 500 civilian lives, with no land conquest by the perpetrator (NATO countries), so that in a few months you can bring an end to the systematic campaign of terror, including murders, rapes, and arsons in which over 13k people were killed or missing during the two year conflict. The Serb forces caused the displacement of between 1.2 million to…

I'm not serbian, but it doesn't matter.

The KLA is a terrorist group, and the last time some terrorists did something in USA (although the number of dead civilians was ~6x higher), the USA decided to attack and occupy afghanistan for 20 years.... just because some saudis couldn't fly a plane. Imagine mexican terrorist groups killing civilians in mexico for years, usa sending the army in to fix the problem, and then russia nuking the hell out of USA because of the anti terrorist actions.

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#149

Post by yogthos »

The_Colonel wrote: post #146
yogthos wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't actually follow. Had the west not got into a sanctions war with Russia, then they might've never increased their output. The end result is that the profits have not been affected. More importantly, what actually counts is the relative damage. It's pretty clear that EU economy has been affected far more severely than Russian economy. IMF projects Russia to actually have growth this year, while there is a…

> IMF projects Russia to actually have growth this year, while there is a recession projected across EU states. IMF bases their projection on data provided by Russian government agencies. So this works only if you trust Russian government to not fumble data.

I guess we'll see won't we. However, it's pretty obvious that Russia is doing massive amounts of trade with China and India. Trade between China and Russia has already reached over 200 billion this year. So, not really sure what this notion that Russian economy is collapsing is based on to be honest.

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#150

Post by The_Colonel »

yogthos wrote: post #149
The_Colonel wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IMF projects Russia to actually have growth this year, while there is a recession projected across EU states. IMF bases their projection on data provided by Russian government agencies. So this works only if you trust Russian government to not fumble data.

I guess we'll see won't we. However, it's pretty obvious that Russia is doing massive amounts of trade with China and India. Trade between China and Russia has already reached over 200 billion this year. So, not really sure what this notion that Russian economy is collapsing is based on to be honest.

> However, it's pretty obvious that Russia is doing massive amounts of trade with China and India.

For sure India and China are eager to exploit the very unequal relationship where Russia now needs India and China much more than the opposite.

The Russian economy is not collapsing, but I'm pretty sure it's hurting. Even if we had real GDP figures, they'd be misleading as now a significant part of the GDP is coming from production of military gear which is literally being burned and does not generate income or feed into other parts of the economy.

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