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EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

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Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#121

Post by nomel »

actionfromafar wrote: post #119
nomel wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this mean that the EU could easily lower its demand?

No?

> If India doesn't buy Russia's oil to resell to Europe, Russia ends up with even less money than they have now.

EU is buying through India, right? If Russia put fee's in place to discourage India from reselling, but EU demand didn't change, prices would have to increase, right? It's a two sided market, supply and EU demand, which makes this "If India doesn't buy Russia's oil to resell to Europe" seem impossible.

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#122

Post by ajsnigrutin »

reducesuffering wrote: post #115
usernew wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I say this as an anti-GOP American who has lived a year an a half in Ukraine, has friends I currently financially support in Ukraine, and thinks Russia should be economically turned into North Korea: Belarus, the country, is "within spitting distance" of Kiev. There has always been tight integration between their armies, as well as open borders. There have Always been Russian soldiers close to Kiev, because that's wh…

From what you wrote, you think because you've spent a few years living in Russia that it makes you an expert on the realities of international relations instead of a common parrot. You've written a large wall of text to debate something that was already settled as fact in February 2022. Did you actually forget that this wasn't a "common occurence?" Russia literally did invade Kyiv from Belarus. I've watched the Russi…

So what is a good reason to attack a country? Just to compare to other wars and how we treated the countries that started them?

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#123

Post by yogthos »

DaedPsyker wrote: post #81
yogthos wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The discounts Russia offers to its partners are minimal, and as CNN reports, Russia's revenues are back to pre-war levels. So, not sure what you're going on about there. https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/14/energy/russia-oil-exports-iea...

That appears to show that the volume has returned but not its price. "The revenue is still down 43% from a year ago, the IEA said, as Russia is forced to sell its barrels to a more limited pool of customers who can negotiate greater discounts."

That doesn't actually follow. Had the west not got into a sanctions war with Russia, then they might've never increased their output. The end result is that the profits have not been affected. More importantly, what actually counts is the relative damage. It's pretty clear that EU economy has been affected far more severely than Russian economy. IMF projects Russia to actually have growth this year, while there is a recession projected across EU states.

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#124

Post by yogthos »

Kbelicius wrote: post #108
yogthos wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That logic only works if Europe was the only trading partner available to Russia. What happened in practice is that Russia simply redirected trade to other countries while Europe now pays a huge markup buying from resellers.

Your logic only works if Russia could simply divert the flow of resources from Europe to somewhere else. They can't, not simply.

This has already happened.

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#125

Post by yogthos »

The_Colonel wrote: post #90
yogthos wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That logic only works if Europe was the only trading partner available to Russia. What happened in practice is that Russia simply redirected trade to other countries while Europe now pays a huge markup buying from resellers.

There's no other customer for the gas Russia used to sell to Europe. There are no pipelines from western gas fields to the east.

CNN article I linked in another disagrees with you.

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#126

Post by yogthos »

The_Colonel wrote: post #94
yogthos wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What they can and have done about it is to redirect their trade towards non western countries that constitute the majority of the world. Plenty of recent articles clearly show that the sanctions have been an utter failure in practice. The only entity that's being severely hurt here is Europe. https://archive.is/2023.02.23-211202/https://www.nytimes.com... https://archive.ph/Niqwh https://nationalinterest.org/feature/…

It's kind of funny to hear Russians argue how sanctions utterly failed, they are hurting the West, do not hurt Russia, on the opposite only strengthen it ... There's a saying "never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake", yet it seems Russians do exactly that again and again?

This isn't the Russians arguing, this is mainstream western pres saying this.

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#127

Post by yogthos »

Kbelicius wrote: post #102
yogthos wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What they can and have done about it is to redirect their trade towards non western countries that constitute the majority of the world. Plenty of recent articles clearly show that the sanctions have been an utter failure in practice. The only entity that's being severely hurt here is Europe. https://archive.is/2023.02.23-211202/https://www.nytimes.com... https://archive.ph/Niqwh https://nationalinterest.org/feature/…

> Plenty of recent articles clearly show that the sanctions have been an utter failure in practice. None of your links actually say that. What they do say is that sanctions did not have the short term impact that some hoped/predicted. What all of them say is that in the long term Russia is most likely fucked. Your claim that the sanctions have been an utter failure is divorced from logic if we go by the links that yo…

IMF is literally projecting growth for Russia this year, but whatever you say buddy. Here is another article you might want to read carefully

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-the-economic-war-aga...

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#128

Post by usernew »

reducesuffering wrote: post #115
usernew wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I say this as an anti-GOP American who has lived a year an a half in Ukraine, has friends I currently financially support in Ukraine, and thinks Russia should be economically turned into North Korea: Belarus, the country, is "within spitting distance" of Kiev. There has always been tight integration between their armies, as well as open borders. There have Always been Russian soldiers close to Kiev, because that's wh…

From what you wrote, you think because you've spent a few years living in Russia that it makes you an expert on the realities of international relations instead of a common parrot. You've written a large wall of text to debate something that was already settled as fact in February 2022. Did you actually forget that this wasn't a "common occurence?" Russia literally did invade Kyiv from Belarus. I've watched the Russi…

First, I'm not going to click on your twitter links or know what they are, because like those trumpers I just made fun of, you seem to think twitter is some kind of a source of something.

Second, there is no martial law requiring men to defend their country right now, and there is no mass mobilization. Here is what there is, and I actually know and skype with people who this has happened to. There are assholes walking the streets and grocery stores, hunting men. When they find you, they lock you up in a room for a day. During that day, they ask you for increasing amounts of cash to let you out. If you are still there at the end of the day, congratulations, you are now in the army. This is reality.

What makes me an expert, compared to someone like yourself who has not been to either country, and gets his opinions from random twitter accounts and one-sided news, is my parents escaped the USSR, I have lived and worked in both countries, and I have and currently do, talk almost daily to people I know in both countries.

>It is not an excuse for invasion ... lastly, let me remind you that yesterday, today, and tomorrow

I am not sure to whom you are replying. try reading what I wrote, and replying to that. your little rant seems unrelated to the conversation.

>I've watched the Russian preparations for war unfold since October 2021.

you haven't watched anything. you have watched twitter clips from random people, while sitting on your couch, and selecting just the news you want to read, translated into your language by someone. the parrot, is literally you. I am contributing first hand personal experience from myself, and people I actively talk to on the ground in both places. you don't want to read it? you seem to not have. then don't reply to the voices making up a strawman in your head. if you don't read, you can't reply to what's written.

if a quarter of a book page is "a wall of text" to you, this actually explains a lot.

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#129

Post by lisasays »

usernew wrote: post #112
reducesuffering wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> MOSCOW, Feb 19 (Reuters) - Two regions in eastern Ukraine where government and separatist forces have been fighting since 2014 were hit by more than 1,400 explosions on Friday How convenient. Russia had been moving soldiers and military equipment for months into position, scheduled a joint exercise with Belarus placing their soldiers in spitting distance of Kyiv, and then suddenly there are explosions "forcing" Rus…

I say this as an anti-GOP American who has lived a year an a half in Ukraine, has friends I currently financially support in Ukraine, and thinks Russia should be economically turned into North Korea: Belarus, the country, is "within spitting distance" of Kiev. There has always been tight integration between their armies, as well as open borders. There have Always been Russian soldiers close to Kiev, because that's wh…

The only difference between the people in charge of Ukraine, and the people in charge of Russia, is Ukraine doesn't have the military to go threaten the world - and if they did, they would.

I don't buy this assessment at a all.

Based on everything from their origins, to their voluminous public statements, to their actions, to their deportment and vibe -- not to mention the basic historical record of the two countries -- there's an astronomical difference of mindset between Putin and Zelensky, and between their respective supporters. I'd go into more detail ... but the other half of your statement is basically vacuous, so why bother? (I mean yeah, I suppose Ukraine would carry itself with more swagger if it had nuclear weapons; so would Fiji or Mexico).

Oh, and then there's this statement:

What you are doing is putting a conspiracy-spin on something that is a common occurrence.

I'm not sure what innuendo you're making here, but since you're apparently referring to the massive pre-invasion mobilization -- to say it was "a common occurrence", or compares to a bunch of GOP apparatchiks gathering in Crofton -- is just too bizarre for words.

Re: EU achieved independence from Russian fossil fuels

#130

Post by lisasays »

usernew wrote: post #128
reducesuffering wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what you wrote, you think because you've spent a few years living in Russia that it makes you an expert on the realities of international relations instead of a common parrot. You've written a large wall of text to debate something that was already settled as fact in February 2022. Did you actually forget that this wasn't a "common occurence?" Russia literally did invade Kyiv from Belarus. I've watched the Russi…

First, I'm not going to click on your twitter links or know what they are, because like those trumpers I just made fun of, you seem to think twitter is some kind of a source of something. Second, there is no martial law requiring men to defend their country right now, and there is no mass mobilization. Here is what there is, and I actually know and skype with people who this has happened to. There are assholes walkin…

compared to someone like yourself who has not been to either country,

You don't know anything at all about this person.

And gets his opinions from random twitter accounts and one-sided news,

Pure ad-hominem and absolutely against site guidelines.

What makes me an expert ... is my parents escaped the USSR, I have lived and worked in both countries, and I have and currently do, talk almost daily to people I know in both countries.

This background is sufficient to make you informed; but it doesn't make you an "expert" about anything.

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