There are five posts in the past 47 days that desperately try to draw attention to the fact that Rust has a community fork now called Crab. The last four accumulated almost no activity, but this one suddenly made it.
Rust has been forked to the Crab Language
271–280 of 555 posts
Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's the Cavill reference?
Henry Cavill is vocal (but kind and respecting) and an "ideologically pure" geek, in the sense that he seems to try and change scripts of series and movies he plays in, where they overlap with his nerdiness, ie [0], but there are more references. Of course, this is true in so far as geekiness can be seen as an ideology, if so, Cavill is pretty pure and vocal, but also just a great guy it seems. Now he’s going for a W…
I thought that the rumours were that other people in the production of The Witcher show were not fans of Cavill trying to change the scripts?
Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language
#273Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You have to protect trademarks or you lose them. Not really. How do you imagine this could work if it was true? It's a great excuse if you're looking to throw your weight around of course. Oh the poor Disney corporation had to sue that primary school for a bajillion dollars, or else they would lose their trademark. Does that sort of thing even pass the sniff test for you? And it works out great for lawyers too. Ins…
Sadly that's indeed how trademark law works - if you don't make even a token effort at enforcing your rights, they can become common names and effectively be lost. That doesn't mean one should rabidly go after every single possible infringing use, obviously, which is what the infamous drafted Rust policy kinda did. It's one of those things that are just not black and white, because laws say one thing ("be harsh all o…
Name one open source programming language that has its trademark policies like Rust.
Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wrote about this a few years ago in [1]. I think some of the more recent personal attacks have been unfair and misguided, but criticism of Stallman goes back decades. Why does X use the MIT license and not GPL? Because they found Stallman too difficult to talk to (see quote in the article). Many prominent people involved in Free Software have been at odds with Stallman for a long time. When I first heard of Stallma…
> A wiser and less ego-centric Stallman would have stepped back decades ago. I don't agree. For all his limits, Stallman maintained an ideological purity that is required to firmly signpost one end of the Overton window. Opensource licenses and projects can mix and match rights and regulations, but you will always have an unwatered GPL option, there to remind people of what the original ideal looked like. Compare the…
As a direct result of Stallman's uncompromising disinterest in what values people in the broader world actually wanted to engage with -- instead attempting to dictate his own moral views as a petty tyrant -- GNU _as a project_ hasn't been relevant to computing for decades.
When was the last time you booted up the Hurd kernel? I would be surprised if more than 10% of HN readers even know what that is. (Stallman actually summarily dismissed Hurd's lead developer when he dared to criticize the GFDL in public. https://lwn.net/Articles/59147/)
Stallman's abrasive and confrontational posturing is related to but distinct from his ideological goals. His rude posturing actually _damaged_ the chances of ever reaching those goals.
Even the GNU "copyleft" license -- the project's greatest success in terms of "actually impacting the world" -- has fallen more and more into disuse in favor of less restrictive licenses such as BSD and MIT.
Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language
#275Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You have to protect trademarks or you lose them. Not really. How do you imagine this could work if it was true? It's a great excuse if you're looking to throw your weight around of course. Oh the poor Disney corporation had to sue that primary school for a bajillion dollars, or else they would lose their trademark. Does that sort of thing even pass the sniff test for you? And it works out great for lawyers too. Ins…
Sadly that's indeed how trademark law works - if you don't make even a token effort at enforcing your rights, they can become common names and effectively be lost. That doesn't mean one should rabidly go after every single possible infringing use, obviously, which is what the infamous drafted Rust policy kinda did. It's one of those things that are just not black and white, because laws say one thing ("be harsh all o…
> Sadly that's indeed how trademark law works - if you don't make even a token effort at enforcing your rights, they can become common names and effectively be lost.
Can they? Give me examples of such trademarks being lost.
Do make sure to check your examples. Maybe you heard say that Xerox lost their trademark. Nope, Xerox® is still a registered trademark of Xerox.
> That doesn't mean one should rabidly go after every single possible infringing use
If this protection is somehow mandatory, why not? How do I check whether I'm "protecting" a trademark enough? Maybe there's a meter somewhere? Is there a scale? What are the units of trademark protection? If there was such a rule, we'd have answers to these questions. There is no such rule.
Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language
#276It doesn't matter if this will eventually be a "real" fork or not, I don't see that as a meaningful criticism. However, a fork + thousands of stars is one of the more unique ways of a grass roots protest.
Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language
#277Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's the Cavill reference?
Henry Cavill is vocal (but kind and respecting) and an "ideologically pure" geek, in the sense that he seems to try and change scripts of series and movies he plays in, where they overlap with his nerdiness, ie [0], but there are more references. Of course, this is true in so far as geekiness can be seen as an ideology, if so, Cavill is pretty pure and vocal, but also just a great guy it seems. Now he’s going for a W…
Come on! Cavill took a nice big pay check from Netflix and filmed 3 seasons of that show, fulfilling his contract like a pragmatic professional. I have no doubt that Cavill is a nice guy that cares about the things he claims to care about, but had he truly been 'pure' in the senes we are talking about he would have walked away a soon as he didn't get his way and not cared about his contract or future career.
Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language
#278This will go nowhere. That's sure. It has exactly zero technical advantages over the original. It has not even the plan to add any improvements over the original… The plan is just to merge upstream. It has no funding. (And a project of this sized needs a lot of funding, just to get the day to day maintenance going.) This whole thing is completely pointless. I'm wondering why it gets so much attention.
> It has exactly zero technical advantages over the original. It has not even the plan to add any improvements over the original… The plan is just to merge upstream.
Technical advantage is not the goal. Here is the actual reason they forked: https://crablang.org/
The Crab (or “CrabLang”) community fork was created as a lighthearted yet measured response to the growing concerns within the community about the influence of corporations and the restrictive trademark policy proposed by the foundationRe: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think ideological purity is the problem here.
Ideological purity is the point. A whole range of other options are available but ideological purity is what Stallman offers, with no expectation that everyone will appreciate its benefits. The very existence of the FSF's offerings is necessary to understand what other positions compromise to obtain other benefits.
"Don't let perfect be the enemy of good"
Might be a saying to reflect on for a bit.
Also aside from that he was an enormous asshole to people, which damaged his own goals, and is just wrong.
Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
> That can happen in open source, see Stallman and others. Could you elaborate on because I'm increasingly seeing Stallman being thrown around as a bogeyman who impeded FOSS progress for years if not decades and I really dislike this trend. It seems that his personal views (which I do not support) and eccentricity is being conflated with his contributions to FOSS. I will preface this by noting that this is "my belief…
He doesnt seem to be liked by some of the more powerful, corporate entities in tech, probably because he pushes some agendas that are somewhat anti-their-profits. I think this was behind the rather unsuccessful attempts to cancel him a few years ago, which cast a shadow over his reputation.
> He doesnt seem to be liked by some of the more powerful, corporate entities in tech, probably because he pushes some agendas that are somewhat anti-their-profits
I don't think any of those corporate entities care about Stallman in the slightest.
At least 95% of the time you hear talk about him even in technical forums it's the "why is he still around" sort of controversy in various forms. You almost never hear about him doing something that could be described as positive leadership that could make any competition worry.
I highly doubt anybody at those powerful, corporate entities even keep track of what he's doing, let alone has any concerns for their profits because of him.
> I think this was behind the rather unsuccessful attempts to cancel him a few years ago, which cast a shadow over his reputation.
The attempts to get him out I think come mostly from the Free Software community itself who to a large extent wants a better and less embarrassing leadership.