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Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

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Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#231

Post by andrewstuart »

porcoda wrote: post #112
coffeeblack wrote: post #31

Interesting, how many negative comments this gets. People seem to love monoculture run by committees. This is exactly what OSS is all about. Take a code base and develop it into different directions. Both code and organization. And "natural selection" will have some forks die and others strife.

I like languages that are a monoculture. It's a mess when you have many flavors of a language. Anyone else here remember the joy of various Fortran variants? It was a pain in the ass - VMS Fortran, Cray Fortran, HPF, etc... ("How do I call a subroutine with a Cray Pointer" - pointers were variant specific? Ugh). Pulling the variants together under a common standard made it reasonable to build projects from multiple g…

>> "How do I call a subroutine with a Cray Pointer"

There’s a fresh new level of hell I hope I don’t get sent to for my sins when my time is up.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#232

Post by WJW »

yarg wrote: post #106
exitb wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stable project structure is a requirement to survive as an enterprise language, which everyone tries to make it into. It can live with the forks, but only as a toy language.

There is a vast chasm between enterprise and toy. A thing does not need to be enterprise level to be useful or even very useful.

Perhaps, but it does need to be enterprise level (with all the things that come with it) if you want to be used by enterprises and high-grade projects like the Linux kernel. Many in the Rust community have explicitly stated that they want those type of entities to start using Rust, so being enterprise level is therefore a must-have.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#233

Post by akkad33 »

cookieperson wrote: post #197
usgroup wrote: post #133

I've invested in a fair bit of time in learning Rust fairly recently -- asking naively, but is this sort of thing something which could realistically compromise the future of the language?

No. It's just people doing what they want with OSS. The majority of the mindshare is still in one place. It looks more like a protest and or a hobby project then anything else.

Wasn't Rust also started as a hobby project?

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#234

Post by epolanski »

pdimitar wrote: post #198
epolanski wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? Competition if anything breeds more innovation. I wish someone came up, e.g., with an Elm fork.

Because the working programmers are busy enough already. Have them part attention at Rust vs. Crab and a part of them will likely just leave. All this drama and the fork likely seem extremely important to the parties involved but everyone else just wishes they would get along. As a working dev I want one Rust.

If some drama is the reason why people may leave Rust, I guess engineering is not this person's or team's strength.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#235

Post by teekert »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #227
teekert wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with throw0101bm but then there are people like Henry Cavill.

What's the Cavill reference?

Henry Cavill is vocal (but kind and respecting) and an "ideologically pure" geek, in the sense that he seems to try and change scripts of series and movies he plays in, where they overlap with his nerdiness, ie [0], but there are more references. Of course, this is true in so far as geekiness can be seen as an ideology, if so, Cavill is pretty pure and vocal, but also just a great guy it seems. Now he’s going for a Warhammer 40k series and people are looking forward to it, because he knows his s*.

[0] https://redanianintelligence.com/2021/12/09/henry-cavill-add...

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#236

Post by coffeeblack »

scns wrote: post #42
coffeeblack wrote: post #31

Interesting, how many negative comments this gets. People seem to love monoculture run by committees. This is exactly what OSS is all about. Take a code base and develop it into different directions. Both code and organization. And "natural selection" will have some forks die and others strife.

This. Let a 1000 flowers bloom. There is an essay about it. To lazy to google it. Maybe some fellow has it bookmarked.

About what? That phrase, that was just a trick by the Chinese Communists to find and kill millions of its critiques?

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#237

Post by pdimitar »

epolanski wrote: post #234
pdimitar wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the working programmers are busy enough already. Have them part attention at Rust vs. Crab and a part of them will likely just leave. All this drama and the fork likely seem extremely important to the parties involved but everyone else just wishes they would get along. As a working dev I want one Rust.

If some drama is the reason why people may leave Rust, I guess engineering is not this person's or team's strength.

Agreed, it's just that I seriously don't want to pay attention whether I should keep using Rust or switch to Crab. I simply don't want to care, I got plenty of work on my plate already.

...You know?

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#238

Post by interlinked »

saithound wrote: post #177
codeflo wrote: post #35

For anyone critizing this: From the trademark bullshit to the conference drama, it's clear at this point that someone with influence in the Rust foundation is behaving like an asshole and damaging the project. That can happen in open source, see Stallman and others. It's also clear that others at the Rust foundation tolerate this behavior, downplay it, don't understand the impact, don't want to go against a "respecte…

As an interested outsider, it is indeed painfully clear at this point that someone is behaving like an asshole and damaging the project. Creating a hostile fork ticks both boxes.

This fork is and will always be 'ctrl+c','ctrl+v' of the rust language. The only difference is that the owners of this fork will not go after your business if you abuse their trademark. The presence of this fork means that rust foundation cannot enforce their trademark anymore. The day they try to, it will become a headline and all the businesses will start using this fork whenever they want to talk about rust language.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#239

Post by rowanG077 »

colesantiago wrote: post #226
rowanG077 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It obviously didn't die. It got merged into the original project. That is a great end of a fork.

So it didn't survive then. Isn't that the whole point of what I said: > Forks of a large project seldom survive.

But it did survive. I can't view rejoining the forked from repository as dying.

Re: Rust has been forked to the Crab Language

#240

Post by colesantiago »

abenga wrote: post #224
colesantiago wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenOffice isn't dead, they made a release a few months ago this year. https://blogs.apache.org/OOo/entry/announcing-apache-openoff... Last commit made 3 days ago, actively maintained. https://github.com/apache/openoffice

c. 3 commits per day from one contributor? That's dead, compared to Libreoffice that has dozens per day from multiple contributors.

By that logic, projects like the Bohem GC is dead with only one full time maintainer.

https://github.com/ivmai/bdwgc

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