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India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

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Re: India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

#421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Honestly, this attitude—equating moderate criticism with “rabid hate” I was responding to this comment: "I absolutely hate the way fellow Indians will just try and deflect negative stories about India as western propaganda." Nice try trying to change the tone of his sentence (which was "I absolutely hate") to "moderate criticism". There is nothing "moderate" about "absolutely hating" something/someone. I was just r…

> nothing "moderate" about "absolutely hating" something/someone Fair enough. “I hate” in American English is a complaining—not raging—tone, though I grant it’s ambiguous and concede it shouldn’t be used. > What difference would it make to India's growth trajectory if you lose your excitement? Not much. Generally speaking, “fuck you, I’m beautiful” cultures that turn insecurity into a national sport have a common pat…

> and it’s paused at least my investing in India

And why is this so important? If you don't invest someone else will. The World is huge. There are plenty of players who are willing to invest in India's growth: both within borders of India as well as people from outside India. No dearth of those who believe in India's future.

> Generally speaking, “fuck you, I’m beautiful” cultures that turn insecurity into a national sport have a common path.

You know who excels at this the most? The West. Its penchant for "installing democracy" in various countries, by force, and then leaving it completely destabilized and destroyed is something we have seen happen time and time again. Which is why you see trends of de-dollarization and non-alignment picking up rapidly. If India doesn't toe the Western line of thought we are targeted, either with sanctions (like in the 90s after reciprocal nuclear tests) or pompous pontifications on democracy/human rights in 2020s (because the West no longer can simultaneously sanction as well as invest in India's growth can it?). You see we Indians know how to survive and thrive even in the worst of conditions. The 90s are a good reminder for all of us as to how reliable the West is. If we go further back into the 70s we had to face off a Western Alliance which sent ships to nuke us out of existence because we chose to side with Democracy against an evil Dictatorship which the West was mollycoddling with. If you don't know what I am talking about read up on the USS Enterprise and the 7th fleet (Task Force 74). [1]

So yeah it applies more to the West compared to ancient cultures rooted in tradition like India.

> (The only other places I see this, ironically, is in the U.K., Russia and rural American south.)

So you are saying you don't see the West indulging in this but only U.K., Russia and rural American south? No wonder why the West is failing the past decade. Do you not even see the strong anti-West sentiment in the air as well as the de-dollarization that is gathering rapid speed/progress? If I were in your position I wouldn't be bothered about investing in India being an issue but be more worried about protecting my investments in the West considering the crazy geopolitical decisions the West has been taking lately. It has eroded a lot of confidence/trust other countries had towards the West. To the point where we are building alternate infrastructure to settle trade (which is currently dominated by the West with its SWIFT infrastructure). Not a good outlook for the West at the very least. Western hegemony will end. It is no longer a question of "if" but "when".

> India’s elites are savvy enough to build trade and diplomatic relationships, learn from others’ successes and failures and show outward strength

We don't need to learn from others' successes and failures. We have plenty of our own successes and failures if we just bother to look back into our rich Ancient history (which many Westernized Indians lack basic knowledge in). And most Indian elites/diplomats/businessmen have given examples from India's Ancient history as their source of strength. Have linked an example of the same from India's best EAM that we have ever had until now [2].

> limiting in its rejection of unexpected sources of information

Please. Do not try to simplify this issue as an issue of rejecting "unexpected sources of information". The Western media has been playing this playbook for decades now. Most articles you see about India or the Indian Government (irrespective of who is in power) is mostly anti-India. Even positive news (like a successful rocket launch by ISRO) is sprinkled with at least some amount of negativity. The usual trope being poverty. There is no two ways about it. None of this is "unexpected". Rather Indians would find it "unexpected" if the West does not use any of the usual stereotypes associated with Indians and broadcasts news as is. We are so used to the denigration that many have become immune to it over time. We just expect to see at least one b-roll of Mumbai slum, of a heavily crowded marketplace, people hanging from trains and if not for these then definitely one of monkeys hopping buildings stealing food. Pick any news story about India from any Western publication, watch the story and tell me you don't see at least one of these typical racial stereotypes.

[1] https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/calling-the-uss-bluff...

[2] https://youtu.be/i8ZM4r9pbmM?t=93

Re: India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

#422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that would not work. You can apply a filter and immediately after compute a hash. For now, the fake pictures are rather easy to spot to a trained eye.

> You can apply a filter and immediately after compute a hash. Can you expand on that? I’m not sure what wouldn’t work

>> For video, store the hash/phash of the frames with timestamps. But would that even work?

That would not work, because how do you prove that hash has been computed before video manipulation? Already, the imaging chips do some processing, so you never get the original raw image from the CMOS sensor.

Re: India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

#423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that would not work. You can apply a filter and immediately after compute a hash. For now, the fake pictures are rather easy to spot to a trained eye.

> You can apply a filter and immediately after compute a hash. Can you expand on that? I’m not sure what wouldn’t work

>> For video, store the hash/phash of the frames with timestamps. But would that even work?

That would not work, because how do you prove that hash has been computed before video manipulation? Already, the imaging chips do some processing, so you never get the true raw image from the CMOS sensor.

Re: India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

#424
post #38
post #6

That is getting real freaking dystopian. Sure, we would have been able to do this before, and the Soviet Union did a ton of photo editing. But doing this particular edit must have been so easy. No cost at all, no mental barrier. You would almost think 'why bother'. And before anyone says 'yeah, but the truth came out'. Well, we saw it, but how many of the particular audience of whatever that outlet was will never see…

That is what a lot of us think the real threat of "AI" is: not that it will autonomously produce bad outcomes for humanity, but because it's a tool that's indifferent to truth or falsehood it allows any kind of truth or reality based politics to be totally flooded out of the public sphere. Everyone ends up fighting in the hall of mirrors.

All tools are indifferent to truth. There's no such solution as "make tools that are inclined to truth", it would be even worse because everyone has their own definition of truth when they need it. What we as a humanity need is a tool to keep tabs on trust. You doctor the photo once - all your further photos are considered doctored from now on.

Re: India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

#425
post #6

That is getting real freaking dystopian. Sure, we would have been able to do this before, and the Soviet Union did a ton of photo editing. But doing this particular edit must have been so easy. No cost at all, no mental barrier. You would almost think 'why bother'. And before anyone says 'yeah, but the truth came out'. Well, we saw it, but how many of the particular audience of whatever that outlet was will never see…

Just wait until POWs start denouncing their former armies, or KIAs magically return home, or Ukrainian children in Russian families start magically saying how much better it is, etc etc. The demoralizing effect of watching a loved one do this would be immense.

that all happens already when they are forced by their captors say it willingly to remain safe and alive.

Re: India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

#426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are only Hindu temples under the control of various state governments? That is because historically, a lot of the land (farm and non-farm) came under the Hindu temples when the temples were under the administration of kings. The British East India Company took over the administration which then transferred to the provinces (prior to independence) and then the states post-independence. Different states then pass…

> Different states then passed laws. A "secular" state will treat all places of prayer and worship the same. If it controls only Hindu temples but not churches and mosques, it is not "secular." > Ofcourse they do. The constitution and the RTE act treat minority and non-minority institutions differently. Everything from the funding structure, to what can be taught, to how the teachers are appointed, to whether religio…

> Hindu institutions can do certain things but under restrictions that are not applicable to minorities. Again, this second-class treatment is considered to be "secular.

An argument can be made than Hindu institutions are already dominant and without certain laws curtailing what they can do/giving special privileges to minorities balances this out to some degree.

And analogy with company law/regulation could be made. Different rules generally apply to monopolies and corporations controlling majority of their respective markets than to smaller companies to prevent them from abusing their position.

Re: India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

#427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Different states then passed laws. A "secular" state will treat all places of prayer and worship the same. If it controls only Hindu temples but not churches and mosques, it is not "secular." > Ofcourse they do. The constitution and the RTE act treat minority and non-minority institutions differently. Everything from the funding structure, to what can be taught, to how the teachers are appointed, to whether religio…

> Hindu institutions can do certain things but under restrictions that are not applicable to minorities. Again, this second-class treatment is considered to be "secular. An argument can be made than Hindu institutions are already dominant and without certain laws curtailing what they can do/giving special privileges to minorities balances this out to some degree. And analogy with company law/regulation could be made.…

What kind of nonsense is that? Just because Christians are dominant in the West, does it mean that their secular govts should control Christian institutions in their countries?

Re: India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

#428
post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow! Most of what you mentioned is plain wrong. Not sure if you are mistaken or lying knowingly. >> The ban on crop burning (main cause of Delhi's pollution) was central to the farm bill. Crop burning is already outlawed in India and enforced with fines. Why you need to make a new law for something which is already illegal? Below was the actual central idea of the farm bill: "The laws would have deregulated a system…

Did you even read my post ? > China is a "proper liberal democracy" as per you? The exact line you quoted, literally ends with an "if at all" in brackets right after. > Source please? That Rahul Gandhi is the 6th generation heir ? Motilal -> Jawaharlal -> Indira -> Rajiv -> Sonia -> Rahul. What's disputable here ? That he is incompetent ? I mean, even the most ardent congress fan won't deny that Rahul Gandhi is incom…

Motilal -> Jawaharlal -> Indira -> Rajiv -> Rahul

Sonia is not the child of Rajiv, it's his spouse.

Re: India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

#429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hindu institutions can do certain things but under restrictions that are not applicable to minorities. Again, this second-class treatment is considered to be "secular. An argument can be made than Hindu institutions are already dominant and without certain laws curtailing what they can do/giving special privileges to minorities balances this out to some degree. And analogy with company law/regulation could be made.…

What kind of nonsense is that? Just because Christians are dominant in the West, does it mean that their secular govts should control Christian institutions in their countries?

I assumed state control of Hindu institutions actually gives them advantages over other sects? (like state funding etc.)

> does it mean that their secular govts should control Christian institutions in their countries?

Well… that was the main reason why the reformation happened and that was the case in many countries for a long time. Clearly it gave these state run churches a massive advantage over other denominations (of course European countries have moved away from this in last 100-200 years).

I thought it worked similarly in India as well (i.e. your argument is that India is not truly secular because the state is still supporting Hindu institutions more than Christian/Muslim ones?) Of course I don’t really know anything about organizational structure of Hinduism? I assume it’s extremely decentralized compared to most Christian churches, which would mean ensuring funding without government support would be more complicated?

Re: India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

#430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Different states then passed laws. A "secular" state will treat all places of prayer and worship the same. If it controls only Hindu temples but not churches and mosques, it is not "secular." > Ofcourse they do. The constitution and the RTE act treat minority and non-minority institutions differently. Everything from the funding structure, to what can be taught, to how the teachers are appointed, to whether religio…

> Hindu institutions can do certain things but under restrictions that are not applicable to minorities. Again, this second-class treatment is considered to be "secular. An argument can be made than Hindu institutions are already dominant and without certain laws curtailing what they can do/giving special privileges to minorities balances this out to some degree. And analogy with company law/regulation could be made.…

> special privileges to minorities

Is not secularism.

I would be happy if the constitution openly stated that Hindus must remain second-class citizens in the eyes of the law and that minorities will be first-class citizens. This is hardly any different from zimmi/dhimmi status accorded to non-Muslims under Islamic rule.

> Hindu institutions are already dominant

If you apply this logic at state or district levels, the so-called minorities are in a majority in many districts and states. It then follows that churches in Nagaland and mosques in Kashmir should be under state control and Hindus should be accorded minority status in those states.

> analogy with company law/regulation

Companies do not exist freely in nature. They are a creation of the State and exist at the pleasure of the State. One cannot treat individuals like that and then talk about equality and secularism.

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