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Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

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381–390 of 717 posts

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#381
post #344

My concerns about a cashless society are the power it hands to a few oligopolistic credit card processors. Look at what happened to Pornhub. Regardless of whether you think Pornhub was in the wrong, it is striking that a business was cut off from global financial system by a small number of credit card companies. This was done without due process and under no countries laws. That should scare us at least a little.

Businesses are one thing, but what I find truly dystopic about the idea of 100% cashless societies is that you could off people in the same way. If today, you lose access to your bank account for whatever reason, you still have various options how to purchase necessities: If you got some spare cash, you could use that; otherwise you could ask a friend to lend you some cash. In a cashless society, that won't work: Eve…

5% of the US population is unbanked. A "cashless" society would shut out a massive number of poor, undocumented, homeless, etc and make life even more difficult for them. It would also cause skyrocketing issues with burglary, mugging, etc.

Many porn actors have been blacklisted from the US banking system.

Conservatives got tired of losing US supreme court cases over censorship laws and regulations and shifted to enforcing their morals via the private banking system.

Ever notice that there's no law or regulation requiring banks provide even basic checking service to anyone who can establish a valid identity?

Going cashless cannot happen unless either the government starts providing essential (checking, savings, credit card, and home/personal/auto financing) services they are mandated to provide to everyone (which will never happen because the banking industry would lose a ton of control) or banks must be mandated to provide non-lending services to anyone and provide lending on an identity-blind basis (ie, only metrics may be used, none which identify the type of banking or business or employment or spending you do.)

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#382
post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which postal services? The USPS doesn't strongly discourage it.

They absolutely do and may refuse to mail it in some cases. It increases the risk of theft astronomically, that's why money orders exist.

Can you provide a source? I can provide two indicating they do not.

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/verify/can-you-send-cash-...

https://apnews.com/article/archive-fact-checking-9264421609

You should report to the postmaster general if you are refused service; they would be interested in hearing about this.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Emergencies Act and how it's applied are governed by the Charter. It's a function of government as defined under the Charter. It's not a suspension thereof. It's moving into a different mode of operation, sure, but the it's still all a defined function of that system. As [1] states: > Any temporary laws made under the act are subject to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the Bill of Rights, and must…

> In fact, once the emergency is over they're required by law to hold an inquiry on whether the action was justified in the first place. So the government will investigate... the government. Do they at least wait for an administration change? Worked out beautifully for police departments... > the Senate or the Governor General - or honestly probably the King (albeit risking a constitutional crisis) - at any time, and…

> So the government will investigate... the government. Do they at least wait for an administration change? Worked out beautifully for police departments...

You know the government is currently a minority government, meaning that they require the support of at least one other party to remain in power and an election can be called at any time. Canada's has elections every like 18 months on average under minority government.

Any impropriety in the process would have almost certainly toppled the government and led to an immediate election.

The person who found the government was justified in its use of the Emergencies Act [1] was Paul Rouleau [2] a justice of the Court of Appeals of Ontario.

The senators are appointed by various leaders and are, at least in theory, not aligned with any political party and given lifetime appointments. The House of Commons is elected and comprised of various parties. The King is obviously a hereditary role and lives in England, not beholden to any one person in Canada really, but instead to all Canadians. Obviously the King is neither nominated nor elected. And the Governor General is also pretty unaligned as the King's representative to Canada.

So no, you're wrong, oversight comes from all over the political spectrum and all kinds of affiliations.

Are you applying an American lens? The political system in Canada is quite different, and this is starting to feel like a high school Canadian civics class.

[1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/four-highlights-emergencies...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Rouleau

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have an account with the ATM provider? I'm wondering how these payment providers are in compliance with KYC and KYT regulatuons.

TLDR: it is a feature, not a bug Long version: I don't think Georgia has copied what I think of as the mistake of KYC, yet at least. I feel KYC regulations as they exist today are a big mistake, that does little good, more harm than good and causes a lot of extra work and annoyance. People always seem to think that de-anonymizing things will always make things better. As I get older I feel the more someone wants to k…

Perhaps expand on this into a blog post and post it here on HN...?

Even if the ship has sailed on living in an identity-optional society, at least in most of the world, I still think it's good to record the benefits of such a society.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is he back?!

Obtuse reverse skepticism is not a good look.

Pointing to a guy who’s been dead 50 years seems like weak evidence for the claim that government agencies are widely incentivized to undermine political candidates by… selectively leaking their grocery shopping habits?

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Emergencies Act and how it's applied are governed by the Charter. It's a function of government as defined under the Charter. It's not a suspension thereof. It's moving into a different mode of operation, sure, but the it's still all a defined function of that system. As [1] states: > Any temporary laws made under the act are subject to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the Bill of Rights, and must…

said Charter which is worth zero, when any judge or politician can override it.

I have news for you: if your leadership doesn't care about the process they can do literally whatever they want. What's written down is just words on a page. The whole thing is a construct, including the US constitution. The only real defense anyone has is checks, balances, various kinds of oversight and electing good people who care about doing the right thing. Canada has all of the above, generally speaking.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you visit Georgia (the country, not the state), they have a cool system for cash payments to websites. You go on the website, order your stuff. When the normal payment screen that comes up, instead of Mastercard or visa, you choose "Cash". You'll then be sent a text message with a number (or the number appears on the screen if you don't have a phone). You go to any ATM anywhere in the country, put that number into…

Do you have an account with the ATM provider? I'm wondering how these payment providers are in compliance with KYC and KYT regulatuons.

Well that's one of the points of a 'cash' transaction... Identity-optional.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#388
post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I asked a specific question and you refuse to answer it because your entire premise is based on not being able to know if someone is engaging in unethical behavior. That's premise is seriously flawed. The problem you're trying solve is caused by lack of competition and near monopoly players. The fix isn't to force those businesses to ignore ethics. The fix is hugely increasing the competition.

even though not explicitly, i have already answered your question. you should pass the transaction, as you should be in a neutral position. edit: to clarify, payment providers/processors nowadays are a core utility function in our society. imo this is not something you can consider a regular private business.

My basic human freedoms should include the right to not do business with a hate group for example. You want folks to give up that freedom because you got the problem wrong and you're applying the wrong fix.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would you prefer if they ended the blockades through more forceful means, even if that would escalate into violence? As an outsider looking in on that debacle I have two points to make: 1: What I wanted to be addressed above all was why Canada went so much further than any other country in N. America in response to COVID, and what purpose did it serve when it's biggest trading partner (The US) was also starting to…

> 1: What I wanted to be addressed above all was why Canada went so much further than any other country in N. America in response to COVID, and what purpose did it serve when it's biggest trading partner (The US) was also starting to pressure it from it's border restrictions? Some of it might be due to the current administration's "double allegiances" to China. [0] [1]. Notice Beijing too is set on it's "0 Covid Stra…

> Some of it might be due to the current administration's "double allegiances" to China. [0] [1]. Notice Beijing too is set on it's "0 Covid Strategy". Canada was notorious for having delayed vaccination the Trudeau administration funneled 44 million dollars [2] and months [3] of taxpayer funded research work to CCP controlled CanSino, with little to show for.

That does make sense, Tornoto and especially BC has always been an enclave for the Main-lander to setup shop in Real Estate and then eventually educate their children or eventually expat to, and the place is rife with abuse, and at times violence, towards HKers while the local government or schools not doing much in response.

> What? We have an office in Montreal with French-Canadians, French and Swiss employees and I've never heard of such thing.

Its work enviorment, and the line of thinking you're taking follows as:

I don't see passive-racism in my office, where we pay people to work cordially for a salary with people they otherwise wouldn't be around, therefore racism doesn't and mustn't exist.

Racism is an over-used word in the modern lexicon, but ultimately this is a racial thing: you speak my language and are white, but clearly not from our specific ilk therefore we will ridicule you for it in order to show how inferior you appear to me/us.

I lived and worked in European/N. American kitchens, and restaurants frequented by all of the above; God help you if you only knew what they think about people from Angola or Mali. I was first there during the refugee crisis during the latter part of the financial crisis (11-14) when they couldn't house them so many just lived in city parks in any major town.

Swiss-French, specifically from Geneva, always got a pass for some reason: must be the Banker money/wealth thing attached to it. My friend was from Bern (difficult native mundart speaker even by Swiss German standards) but spoke French with that accent for work as a corporate worker at SBB at dinner parties. Whereas Vaulis always got a strange look if it were in earshot.

But You honestly cannot be oblivious of the way the mainland French perceive it's various dialects, hell even Alsace or Marsille dialects/accents get the cold shoulder from Parisian speakers at a table: but personally, Normandy sounds the best to my ears when spoken by a woman.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#390
post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

even though not explicitly, i have already answered your question. you should pass the transaction, as you should be in a neutral position. edit: to clarify, payment providers/processors nowadays are a core utility function in our society. imo this is not something you can consider a regular private business.

My basic human freedoms should include the right to not do business with a hate group for example. You want folks to give up that freedom because you got the problem wrong and you're applying the wrong fix.

you're free to decide who to do business with if you're not providing a core utility service.

would you like to no longer receive water or electricity at your home because your utility companies don't like you, despite (being willing to) paying the bills like any other citizen?

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