Live data from Hacker News

Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

wsj.com

301–310 of 717 posts

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#301
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, this is a lot of nonsense. Any government that has the ability to prevent dissidents from paying for stuff also has the ability to employ much more brutal and effective methods of quashing dissidence.

They have to find you first, which is quite labor-intensive compared to just tracking and/or halting a person's financial transaction ability.

Really? Did you read that somewhere?

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#302
post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you prefer if they ended the blockades through more forceful means, even if that would escalate into violence?

> Would you prefer if they ended the blockades through more forceful means, even if that would escalate into violence? As an outsider looking in on that debacle I have two points to make: 1: What I wanted to be addressed above all was why Canada went so much further than any other country in N. America in response to COVID, and what purpose did it serve when it's biggest trading partner (The US) was also starting to…

> 1: What I wanted to be addressed above all was why Canada went so much further than any other country in N. America in response to COVID, and what purpose did it serve when it's biggest trading partner (The US) was also starting to pressure it from it's border restrictions?

Some of it might be due to the current administration's "double allegiances" to China. [0] [1]. Notice Beijing too is set on it's "0 Covid Strategy". Canada was notorious for having delayed vaccination the Trudeau administration funneled 44 million dollars [2] and months [3] of taxpayer funded research work to CCP controlled CanSino, with little to show for.

> most French I've encountered see their dialect as uncouth

What? We have an office in Montreal with French-Canadians, French and Swiss employees and I've never heard of such thing.

[0] https://globalnews.ca/news/9658738/trudeau-foundation-china-...

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65054559

[2] https://globalnews.ca/news/7302194/canada-coronavirus-vaccin...

[3] https://ipolitics.ca/2021/03/12/a-waste-of-a-lot-of-time-res...

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. There are other mechanisms to target illegal actions, such as sending the police to arrest the person. Those actions are guarded by due process and the right to trial. Using the financial system to target people is not.

So you would willingly, knowingly, and personally process a transaction to kill someone? Not your problem, let the police discover it?

if you know about/suspect it you report it.

how do you know with 100% certainty/due process that this is indeed the case and it's not just your ML algorithm going crazy?

people can also pay with physical money if they desire to do so.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#304
Indeed. Recently I grudgingly went to a ticketmaster concert. Shit you not, it was like boarding an international flight. It’s not possible to buy a top performer ticket anonymously any longer, and you are required to present ID and have a smartphone.

Who the hell asked for this? I didn’t. It will be my last tm concert, that’s for sure.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, the processing fee for PornHub and gun stores is now 237%. What are you going to do about it?

No idea where you got "237%" but no, of course, the rule I have in mind would require charging fees proportional to the risk. This is well-worn ground. And if somehow the risk is double what the charge is (?!) then that's the risk. They'll have to step up their customer validation at PornHub.

The poster was noting there is historic precedent for parties to charge punitive fees to the point it’s defacto banned for things they don’t like. It would be challenging to stop without mandating some explicit formula too, which can be gamed.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an option: a direct payment system provided by the Central Bank to the general public. In Brazil it is called PIX, and was implemented in 2020. Last month it has processed more than 3 million operations. Works 24/7, 0 fees to end users, low cost for business. IMO, going cashless is not an "if", it is a "when". https://www.bcb.gov.br/en/financialstability/pix_en

Who controls the central bank in Brazil? Who can implement changes to this system? How much PII is recorded with each transaction and who can view it?

I'm not familiar with Brazil's system, but moving a central bank to being democratically controlled is betterbthan leaving this in the hands of a private company. The US central bank isn't currently democratically controlled, but it could be. Then collectively we could decide how a Brazil type system should function. People are better served when their banks aren't run for-profit.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#307
post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you would willingly, knowingly, and personally process a transaction to kill someone? Not your problem, let the police discover it?

if you know about/suspect it you report it. how do you know with 100% certainty/due process that this is indeed the case and it's not just your ML algorithm going crazy? people can also pay with physical money if they desire to do so.

What I asked is specific: if you know the money is for a hit job will you still accept the business and take your fee or is there a moral line you personally won't cross? Yes, it's the job of the police to investigate but do you want the freedom to not engage in business that you consider evil?

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same way it's handled now, you charge a higher processing fee proportional to the chargeback risk in the industry. My only argument is that networks shouldn't be able to capriciously deny transactions that are legal, even if I disagree with them. I don't believe in the 2nd amendment, but to the extent it is lawful to buy a gun, you should be able to buy it with your Visa card, imo, and a lot of payment acquirers do n…

OK, the processing fee for PornHub and gun stores is now 237%. What are you going to do about it?

You can cap the effective margin with even a very generous limit — say, processing fees no more than 3x the cost of servicing chargebacks — and mostly eliminate the concern about "quietly banning" businesses via processing fees.

But the thing is that there isn't much incentive to do this kind of skulduggery, because the companies are only protecting themselves from lawsuits and protests when they ban businesses, but imposing high processing fees would probably not satisfy the would-be tyrants who were trying to force these "bans".

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could a website function with cash payments at all?

If you visit Georgia (the country, not the state), they have a cool system for cash payments to websites. You go on the website, order your stuff. When the normal payment screen that comes up, instead of Mastercard or visa, you choose "Cash". You'll then be sent a text message with a number (or the number appears on the screen if you don't have a phone). You go to any ATM anywhere in the country, put that number into…

This is available in much of Asia actually. It is common to pay in "cash" in many Asian countries and this service is available through 7/Eleven.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#310

My concerns about a cashless society are the power it hands to a few oligopolistic credit card processors. Look at what happened to Pornhub. Regardless of whether you think Pornhub was in the wrong, it is striking that a business was cut off from global financial system by a small number of credit card companies. This was done without due process and under no countries laws. That should scare us at least a little.

There is an option: a direct payment system provided by the Central Bank to the general public. In Brazil it is called PIX, and was implemented in 2020. Last month it has processed more than 3 million operations. Works 24/7, 0 fees to end users, low cost for business. IMO, going cashless is not an "if", it is a "when". https://www.bcb.gov.br/en/financialstability/pix_en

[deleted]
Post reply on HN