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Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

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241–250 of 717 posts

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#241
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you handle chargeback claims? Should all users of the system share in the fraud risk?

Same way it's handled now, you charge a higher processing fee proportional to the chargeback risk in the industry. My only argument is that networks shouldn't be able to capriciously deny transactions that are legal, even if I disagree with them. I don't believe in the 2nd amendment, but to the extent it is lawful to buy a gun, you should be able to buy it with your Visa card, imo, and a lot of payment acquirers do n…

OK, the processing fee for PornHub and gun stores is now 237%. What are you going to do about it?

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are these really inconveniences? Most of the times I've had trouble paying for stuff were usually at supermarkets or gas stations where the credit card reader would refuse to acknowledge my card. Swiping/inserting/touching, not even cursing worked so without cash on hand I'd have had to surrender my ID to the clerk, take a cab to the closest ATM and return with cash.

I've been using cards nearly exclusively my entire adult life, and I can only think of one time that my card had an issue, and it turned out my whole bank was down for ~1 hour. Inconvenient, but I can think of more times I've forgotten to have enough cash with me, and I barely use cash at all now. In the UK and Australia where I normally am, card infrastructure is just so entirely universal and reliable that it's not…

I'm in Canada and the US, but same story. Still carry $40 on me just in case I need the cash but 99% of my transactions in-person are card.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same way it's handled now, you charge a higher processing fee proportional to the chargeback risk in the industry. My only argument is that networks shouldn't be able to capriciously deny transactions that are legal, even if I disagree with them. I don't believe in the 2nd amendment, but to the extent it is lawful to buy a gun, you should be able to buy it with your Visa card, imo, and a lot of payment acquirers do n…

OK, the processing fee for PornHub and gun stores is now 237%. What are you going to do about it?

No idea where you got "237%" but no, of course, the rule I have in mind would require charging fees proportional to the risk. This is well-worn ground. And if somehow the risk is double what the charge is (?!) then that's the risk. They'll have to step up their customer validation at PornHub.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#245
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that the government often creates crimes that citizens don't agree with. Or the majority uses the law to try to force their preferences on the minority.

So should everyone simply disregard any laws they disagree with, provided they can get away with it? Where does it end?

I think the depends entirely on if the "crime" has a victim or otherwise causes severe problems to society. Though those problems should probably be more severe than then the problems caused by trying and failing to ban a victimless crime, which always creates a black market (and associated violence, which does have victims).

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#246
post #214
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also the threat to civil liberties was exposed in Canada when the government saw it fit to freeze people's bank accounts. I believe this is being reviewed and maybe something will come of it so that the gov is not allowed to cavalierly freeze accounts in the future, but you can see how even liberal people are ready to violate people's civil liberties when they see it fit. It's like principles are only followed when t…

Would you prefer if they ended the blockades through more forceful means, even if that would escalate into violence?

> Would you prefer if they ended the blockades through more forceful means, even if that would escalate into violence?

As an outsider looking in on that debacle I have two points to make:

1: What I wanted to be addressed above all was why Canada went so much further than any other country in N. America in response to COVID, and what purpose did it serve when it's biggest trading partner (The US) was also starting to pressure it from it's border restrictions?

2: As a former street demo activist, I can tell you violence doesn't always have to resort to physical altercation; it takes many forms, and those impacts can take just as long if not longer to recover from. Financial censorship is a form of violence, you are depriving people of their own property and personal agency. It compounds further when their way of living is being stripped from them and they are unable to feed themselves or their families, thus causing further discord and strife in Society--be it in bankruptcy or divorce etc...

The vaccine-mandate is just one response to a litany of others that proved to have efficacy in combating COVID; better diets, exercise, sunlight and Vitamin D proved an even bigger boon for people's health and well being and yet those are OPTIONAL even to this day.

My point is why did it even come this? And why are so many proponents of the State being able to ruin the lives of fellow members of their class (non-elite/political class) with such fervor in Canada?

I've personally never understood the plight of Montreal as anything that mattered, most French I've encountered see their dialect as uncouth and their culture entirely divorced from their own; but after all of this I can surmise that it's they have been in a forced marriage with an abusive partner who is prone to take everything it has under the constant threat of violence as a likely POV they must have.

Perhaps not unlike Ukraine, Catalunya or Pais Vasco for a more European example that spans Centuries of needless bloodshed.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you conveniently leave out is that government in its infinite wisdom can simply decide it does not apply under exceptions[1] in section 1 of the charter. Shocking. Government left itself an out. What is more annoying that people defend it as it is not what it actually is. Now compare it to what the act was intended for ( some sort of senior politician kidnapping ) and what it was used for in peace time ( forcibl…

> I guess what I am saying is that it can be governed by Charter all it wants, but at the end of the day it is, apparently, governed by what ruling party considers a crisis. Minority government, meaning multiple federal parties, in addition to all the provincial premiers. So basically, every elected official - plus the unelected official, the Governor General. It's why we elect them - and have them, respectively. Lit…

I disagree overall, but I appreciate your replies. I agree that I could have made my point better.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the power it hands to a few oligopolistic credit card processors And the government. In Canada the government suspended the constitution (because that's a thing over there?) because of some peaceful, free-speech protected, protests in the capital and started arbitrary freezing protester's bank accounts. Of course, without any due process (remember, constitutional rights were suspended!).

Yep, and hat tip to the government for a job well done. There's a right and a wrong way to protest, they were given time to choose to do it right. Now that the threat is over and dispersed they're welcome to come back and protest peacefully. For an end to the vaccine mandates, that ended already. Silly sausages. For reference, the Emergencies Act doesn't 'suspend the constitution' it suspends certain Charter rights f…

> There's a right and a wrong way to protest

Looks more like there’s a right and a wrong _cause_ to protest.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, and hat tip to the government for a job well done. There's a right and a wrong way to protest, they were given time to choose to do it right. Now that the threat is over and dispersed they're welcome to come back and protest peacefully. For an end to the vaccine mandates, that ended already. Silly sausages. For reference, the Emergencies Act doesn't 'suspend the constitution' it suspends certain Charter rights f…

> There's a right and a wrong way to protest Looks more like there’s a right and a wrong _cause_ to protest.

Not at all, there have been numerous peaceful protests from these silly sausages since. They still meet up, protesting things that no longer exist, from time to time. You can find occasional news coverage of it. It really was the how. No need to make things up. There's plenty of real things to be upset about.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a cost to handling cash too. Don't know how it compares to cards but with the latter you don't need to have fleets of armored trucks to move money around and robbers can only steal stock.

That security is easy to see. The cyber security and fraud protections on credit card networks are expensive and not visible.

True. But there is no way in hell you can stop people paying with their smartphone or plastic card so those costs are fixed.

An anecdote: during COVID people had to use shopping carts in the supermarket (social distancin). Those trolleys needed a 1 euro coin inserted in them to unlock. Chaos ensued because many customers were not carrying cash- let alone coins.

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