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India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

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Re: India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

#331
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While Congress and other parties have many faults, they’re still a damn sight better than the party that is trying to degrade human rights for non-Hindus. Sometimes you just need to hold your nose and vote for the best option, even if they’re flawed. The road to a better tomorrow is paved with compromises that get us there.

>While Congress and other parties have many faults, they’re still a damn sight better This is clearly an inflammatory opinion with no substantial backing provided, I'd love to hear your reasoning for coming to this conclusion. Indian politics isn't as black and white as you're making it out to be.

I'm sorry, but OPs comment is not an inflammatory opinion. Congress does not stand opposed to the core founding principles of the republic.

Re: India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

#332
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to provide authentic image with your image for it to validate, just as you have to supply any intermediate certificates in TLS. If you want to crop to hide information you have to do this while taking the photo in the camera app. Powerful entity can tell you to install their root certificate just like it happens in China. This is a different problem.

What if I just reframe my picture instead of cropping? Every photo is a choice. A choice of what to show and what not to show.

I think you’re missing the point, this is not a technology to create politically neutral photos. The way you take a photo and even the way you edit it later will all be your choice. It’s also your choice what to take photos of or not in the first place. All this does is it proves the photo was created by

(1) a trusted application

(2) using a builtin device camera

(3) of a device running attested trusted operating system

(4) and any subsequent edits reference such photo’s original hash.

Hopefully stronger assertions could come in the future. This is just to combat digital forgeries and synthetically generated images. It also does nothing against real-world forgeries like actors wearing costumes or makeup.

Re: India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

#333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hold your horses, this is false equivalence. India is no where near China or Russia, Turkey may be closest thing but that is also kind of false. State governments in India are powerful and that complicates many things.

Exactly this, The ruling party has literally lost elections in Karnataka, they're very far from exerting unilateral influence on the entire country, much less becoming a dictatorship

1. BJP still control most of the mainstream media.

2. BJP has in past offered plum post retirement positions to judges after they delivered some controversial decisions in favour of BJP.

3. BJP has full control on Election commission, and the electronic voting machines. Despite multiple reposts of voting machines found in cars of BJP candidates, or videos of faulty machines showing votes in favour of BJP, and despite calls for letting opposition parties inspect machines, Election commission has never let them inspect the machines.

4. A large number of bigots are in various positions in various administrative services and in recent years they have started showing their hate in open.

Re: India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

#334
post #18

India slowly joining China, Russia and Turkey as a dictatorship...

Hold your horses, this is false equivalence. India is no where near China or Russia, Turkey may be closest thing but that is also kind of false. State governments in India are powerful and that complicates many things.

India is very much like Turkey, though perhaps no where as close to China or Russia.

State governments in India are not powerful, and they never have been! The constitution of India grants much more power to the Central Government than it does to the State Governments. The BJP government has pushed the boundary of federalism again and again. Here are some concrete examples:

1. Denial of statehood to Jammu and Kashmir.

2. Using the Centre-appointed governor to take down the Govt. of Maharashtra.

3. Constant pushback on policies and appointments made by the Govt. of Delhi.

Re: India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

#335
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is what a lot of us think the real threat of "AI" is: not that it will autonomously produce bad outcomes for humanity, but because it's a tool that's indifferent to truth or falsehood it allows any kind of truth or reality based politics to be totally flooded out of the public sphere. Everyone ends up fighting in the hall of mirrors.

Yeah. The postmodernists (as I understand them) have been talking about "post truth" and "claims of truth are just assertions of power". And I've always thought that their position was insane. Now they look more like prophets. That world is increasingly the world we live in. The question becomes, how can we stay sane in that world? How can we find enough actual truth (truth that is actually true , true in the old sen…

I don't have any prescriptions for society as a whole but I can tell you what has worked for me.

Basically I rely on my own observations and experiences: don't trust and verify, to adapt the old saying.

Second I limit myself to trusted sources of information and if I can't find one then I just don't get information on that topic: no information is better than false information.

In practice what this means is no algorithmic news feeds, I'm still looking for a good news source for my local city (haven't found one yet, I moved recently), I think a lot about incentive structures and how that might bias an information source, I (try) to apply skepticism to what I read, I block as much noise as possible (for example I don't pay attention to surface level political news because its all noise and virtually no signal), I focus on long term trends rather than "points" in the timeline.

This is far from perfect but its what has evolved as my approach over time.

Re: India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like you are trying to respond to be without understanding the topic first and your above comment does not relate. My reply was to this comment which said: 1. "The ban on crop burning (main cause of Delhi's pollution) was central to the farm bill" 2. "We do not vote for Presidents in India. The president was selected by the ruling party" Can you please let me know how any of above 2 statements are correct? Also…

> "We do not vote for Presidents in India. The president was selected by the ruling party" The President of India is voted by electoral college. We live in a representative democracy. Just because the President is voted by electoral college doesn't mean they are not elected. Keep in mind that the Prime Minister of India is also not directly elected, they are chosen by the Lok Sabha.

Exactly my point!

Re: India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

#337
post #80
post #22

As an NRI, I continue to be disappointed by the country I called home for most of my life. Between the politics and the pollution in Delhi, I fear I can never really return home. The last time I was home, I was struggling every day to breathe because Delhi has crazy air in the winter. While high school friends were telling me about how they don’t believe in equal rights, justifying any means to achieving a Hindu coun…

It is a conundrum, because the same NRIs oppose bills that would solve India's problems. The ban on crop burning (main cause of Delhi's pollution) was central to the farm bill. But protesting farmers (widely supported in the west) opposed it, and the bill died despite having democratic approval (both national opinion and sufficient votes) > dared to vote a great scientist to president We do not vote for Presidents in…

> We do not vote for Presidents in India.

The fact that they are elected by electoral college does not make them non-democratic or non-elected. We live in a representative democracy.

> As a fellow NRI, this is counter to what I hear from my fellow Indians. There is a ton of optimism around jobs, infrastructure growth and economic policies that are finally opening up the nation

One wouldn't rely on anecdotal evidence to justify policy. For example my own experience is the opposite of yours. I hear complains about unemployment, lack of safety for women, cost of living crisis, lack of safety of Muslims.

> Every big nation that has successfully escaped poverty has done so through suffocatingly authoritarian means

Just because others failed doesn't mean we should too. Keep in Mind that the Republic of India has survived until now, and people at it's inception said it wouldn't.

Re: India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

#338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't even included UPI in this which has been an absolute game changer. Anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together would know how transformational UPI has been to India and growth of India in the past few years. But yeah we should neglect all that because the West said so. Sure there are problems in India just like there are problems in every other country in the World. But when it comes to India, the problems ar…

>> I haven't even included UPI in this which has been an absolute game changer. Wasn't the work on UPI started in 2009 and the vision statement was prepared in 2012, 2 years before Modi/BJP came to power? >> In April 2009, National Payment Corporation of India (NPCI) was formed to integrate all the payment mechanisms in India and make them uniform for all retail payments. RBI in 2012 released a vision statement for a…

There were plenty of projects that were announced before BJP came to power and was never implemented. Congress was elected twice to implement these very things. Instead they spent all their time indulging in communal nonsense and high ticket corruption. To just put it into perspective: The Finance Minister P Chidambaram (during UPA era) castigated Modi for launching Digital India when he said it makes no sense considering India is not connected with Internet to the last village [1]. And that it will be a failure. The entire Opposition made fun of it in 2017.

So no matter if you have great ideas, if you do not even believe in those ideas let alone execute on them it is as good as dead ideas.

We would have progressed rapidly had UPA not indulged in corruption and working tirelessly to convict Modi in the Gujarat riots cases and instead focused its efforts on doing some actual developmental work, many of those ideas rightfully was thought of in its time (which i'll give credit for). But they lacked big time on execution. Modi had a proven track record in Gujarat which helped him beat Congress in 2014 elections. He just has brought most of Congress's plans to fruition which Congress doesn't like for obvious reasons.

UPA losing power is its own doing more than BJP's coming to power. Heck even Modi keeps taunting Congress in the Parliament saying that most of the policies that Congress opposes today was all their own plans that they never brought to life. That's the reason the Opposition is unable to counter BJP. BJP is just doing exactly what the Opposition promised in its manifesto when it came to development but never delivered.

[1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/IndiaSpeaks/comments/qlky5t/mps_who...

Re: India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

#339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Add to that the fact that most Western media isn't biased (I've worked with them) Have you forgotten the New York Times job ad for South Asia Business Correspondent for India? Since you say Western media isn't biased and that you have worked with them, I would like to see at least one huff piece published by Western media on Modi/BJP. Surely there has to be at least one article to counter all the anti-Modi/anti-BJP…

> Have you forgotten the New York Times job ad for South Asia Business Correspondent for India? The NYT is not the primary source of truth for policymakers in the United States. I agree there are a number of issues with the NYT's Delhi office, and a lot of that stems from bad pay. The media ecosystem in the US works the same way as how the media works pin India. I haven't seen very nuanced discussions about American…

> The NYT is not the primary source of truth for policymakers in the United States.

I don't have any issue with most current policymakers in US (for the past decade at the very least). Surprisingly most US lawmakers have their own individual views on India (unaffected/not influenced by Western media) and have a good working relationship with the GoI (including Modi and more specifically Jaishankar). This includes policymakers from both sides of the political spectrum (Republicans as well as the Democrats). Thank God for that. Else if they actually believed half the articles that came out of papers like NYT or Washington Post, they would have a totally warped understanding of India. And a really negative one at that. Policymakers pre-Bush era got most things about India wrong (and paid a price for it too with WTC bombings, 9/11 and finding Osama Bin Laden hiding close to their Ally's military complex). US Policymakers have changed their outlook and very few actually hold on to the anti-India stance that they once had. That's welcome.

My issue is with the common citizens getting a warped view of India. That's all.

> In the Media that is actually consumed and read and used by policymakers like when I was on the Hill, as well as in the educational programs that bring future Americans into the Foreign Service.

That's good to know. But Western Media still has a lot to catch up vis-a-vis being unbiased. They still heavily tilt towards parties that are non-BJP. That is fine if that is their intended outlook. But at least let it not pretend to be unbiased then.

> The media ecosystem in the US works the same way as how the media works pin India. I haven't seen very nuanced discussions about American institutions in the Dainik Jagran, Hindustan Times, or WION either.

Yes I agree with you that Indian media is biased too. Most of the media outlets are pro-Modi/pro-BJP. And in a way it should also be seen as a counter to Western media outlets and continuous disinformation/propaganda that kept coming from there. Let us not forget that people who work in Media organizations also have their own individual biases and they typically hire people who subscribe to their biases. It is not always necessarily a money thing (where the ruling party pays a media organization to speak in its favour). Many a times it is purely for ideological reasons.

Much the same as NYT or WP. The only problem is when NYT/WP is that it proclaims itself to be unbiased. That's when I go "Come on man I know you aren't. Quit the pretence".

Also Indian media typically is reactionary. We don't particularly have nuanced discussions about the West because first and foremost we don't have our own statistics bureau that can create all sorts of indexes that the West creates out of thin air. Some of the Western Indexes are based on factual research but most of them aren't. And we just typically counter them in a reactionary manner. We do not invest efforts into actually coming up with actual statistics or at least indulge in counter-propaganda. That appetite simply does not exist. Many of these Western statistics, stories and news articles go unrebutted.

Like I gave an example of World Happiness Index. Let us take World Press Freedom Index. India ranks below Afghanistan in World Press Freedom Index. 11 spots behind Afghanistan. This is a total joke. Is the West actually trying to say that Taliban, which is ruling Afghanistan now, has more Press Freedom than India? You see how these nonsensical statistics go unchallenged? Because what would you even counter these with? It is that ridiculous! Surely if everything was so bad in India we wouldn't be a thriving and one of the fastest growing economies in the World today. We would all be on the streets rioting (like what happened in Sri Lanka) and storming Modi's residence. Most of it is hyperbole.

Re: India ruling party's IT cell used AI to show smile on arrested protesters' faces

#340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The sheer amount of hubris in your post is astounding. Good to know you consider the World Happiness Index 2023 as hubris. We can finally agree on something. > I won’t be replying again to you because I don’t think you are capable of accepting that other people disagree with your world view Funny how you believe "I don’t think you are capable of accepting that other people disagree with your world view" and in the…

Mate, you do realise that Whataboutery is simply another way to have a faux conversation with yourself?

Yeah and what is wrong with whataboutery? I have no issues with sprinkling some whataboutery to expose the West for the ridiculous expectations it has from a developing country like India while at the same time indulging in worse acts itself. I mean at least don't effing preach if you can't show yourself to be a good example/role model. That's the least you can do.
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