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Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

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Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#31

Post by wsgeorge »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #17
Seattle3503 wrote: post #13

My concerns about a cashless society are the power it hands to a few oligopolistic credit card processors. Look at what happened to Pornhub. Regardless of whether you think Pornhub was in the wrong, it is striking that a business was cut off from global financial system by a small number of credit card companies. This was done without due process and under no countries laws. That should scare us at least a little.

How could a website function with cash payments at all?

Indirectly. Uber "accepts" cash in some countries, as do major online retailers in those same markets like Jumia. It's essentially cash on delivery, but it works AFAICT.

I've only used my card with Uber a handful of times in 2016.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#32

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

standardUser wrote: post #9

On a recent trip to Europe I didn't take out cash once over 3 weeks across 3 countries. I brought 50 euros with me and that was all I needed! Everything else was just a quick tap of the phone, including every metro system outside of Paris. My only hesitation to getting rid of cash entirely - how will I buy drugs? I don't gamble illegally or pay for sex, but I imagine those services would also struggle in an increasin…

Digital money is an ideal slip noose that keeps you under total control and surveillance. People who fought the government in my country have found it out the hard way.

What, the government in your country is benevolent and would never do something like that? Oh, my sweet summer child...

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#33

Post by invalidname »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #17
Seattle3503 wrote: post #13

My concerns about a cashless society are the power it hands to a few oligopolistic credit card processors. Look at what happened to Pornhub. Regardless of whether you think Pornhub was in the wrong, it is striking that a business was cut off from global financial system by a small number of credit card companies. This was done without due process and under no countries laws. That should scare us at least a little.

How could a website function with cash payments at all?

I think the point is about the monopolistic nature. Not that they would accept cash.

Without cash we will see credit fees rise significantly.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#34

Post by incone123 »

walterbell wrote: post #21
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could a website function with cash payments at all?

No one is arguing for a cash-only society. Digital has use cases. Cash has use cases. We can have both.

I don't think they were making that argument, more that websites don't usually take cash anyway.

(Can't imagine pornhub selling gift cards at the supermarket checkout next to the App store ones)

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#35

Post by SoftTalker »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #18
SoftTalker wrote: post #12

I encounter more businesses that only take cash than I do those that refuse it. A couple of local restaurants, and my barber. Though one of the restaurants recently also started accepting Zelle. I can't think of anyplace local that refuses cash but there are several others that offer a discount for cash.

Opposite in my part of the world. Lots of businesses aren’t taking a cash anymore. The only ones I know that deal with cash only are marijuana dispensaries, which are popular targets for thugs as a result.

My barber carries a Ruger GP100 357 magnum revolver to discourage thuggery. I'm 100% serious.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#36

Post by medler »

standardUser wrote: post #9

On a recent trip to Europe I didn't take out cash once over 3 weeks across 3 countries. I brought 50 euros with me and that was all I needed! Everything else was just a quick tap of the phone, including every metro system outside of Paris. My only hesitation to getting rid of cash entirely - how will I buy drugs? I don't gamble illegally or pay for sex, but I imagine those services would also struggle in an increasin…

If the only argument against getting rid of cash is that it would make it harder to commit crimes, that sounds like a good reason to get rid of cash.

I like cash because I like my privacy but cash making it easier to do crime is an unfortunate side effect, not an end in itself.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#37

Post by jon-wood »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #17
Seattle3503 wrote: post #13

My concerns about a cashless society are the power it hands to a few oligopolistic credit card processors. Look at what happened to Pornhub. Regardless of whether you think Pornhub was in the wrong, it is striking that a business was cut off from global financial system by a small number of credit card companies. This was done without due process and under no countries laws. That should scare us at least a little.

How could a website function with cash payments at all?

Mullvad have made it work, but it’s definitely not smooth. I believe their process is to assign a unique ID to your invoice, which you can then write on an envelope stuffed with cash you mail to the correct address. On receipt they match your cash with the invoice and mark it as paid.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#38

Post by skeeter2020 »

SoftTalker wrote: post #12

I encounter more businesses that only take cash than I do those that refuse it. A couple of local restaurants, and my barber. Though one of the restaurants recently also started accepting Zelle. I can't think of anyplace local that refuses cash but there are several others that offer a discount for cash.

>> there are several others that offer a discount for cash

This is relatively new; previously Visa/MC prevented their merchants from doing this but it changed recently.

Counter example: you can penalize a company you don't like by paying with amex.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#39

Post by raincom »

Big brother wants to surveil on everyone, that's the goal of any cashless society. How the big brother can force shutdown a business, say, X, which doesn't comply requests without warrants? Just have visa/master/paypal (third party) to not do business with X, because X violates some TOS.

Even though inflation has increased three folds since the bank secrecy act, they have kept the limits so low to track any cash entry/exits out of the financial system. Big brother doesn't want the powerless people to unite--thats the end goal.

Re: Pro-cash movement warns that people could be losing more than they bargained for

#40

Post by permo-w »

3pt14159 wrote: post #29
shishy wrote: post #10

Cash is great. Can't be tracked, credit card companies don't get to discriminate against the poor and create negative feedback loop traps that they can't out of, it's easier to be financially responsible with it. Bit unfortunate too that paying with cash just adds a tax onto the poor since the fees are basically priced into goods sold at stores, typically regardless of whether or not cash is used. But yeah, nice to h…

> Can't be tracked If that were true, then criminal elements wouldn't need to severely launder their money. It's a spectrum. Cash can be tracked, each legitimate bill has a unique serial number, and yes, at least at present I haven't heard of private actors outside of those that service law enforcement tracking it, but the reality is that if you withdraw $8k to pay for a motorcycle and hand it to a guy that sells you…

are you suggesting that the serial number of every note you withdraw is registered against your account?
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