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Why I Left Rust
201–210 of 880 posts
Re: Why I Left Rust
#202Wait. Let me get this straight. Someone is an expert in this field. They're asked to speak at RustConf after a leadership vote. They've also written an article about reflection in Rust - a purely technical thing that is already pretty widely disliked conceptually. (EDIT: the talk was about this, but it's also compile time reflection and came with the usual disclaimer that it was not representative of any of the Rust…
Looks like the Rust community could use some reflection ;)
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Re: Why I Left Rust
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The equivalent situation is something like being warmly invited to a wedding > ... > Later, you're told you can only come to the ceremony and not the reception or party For context, I've spoken at over 100 conference events. Is it though? I can tell you from an audience point of view it almost certainly isn't. Nobody cares very much what "status, time, and prominence" your talk has. Which leads me to ... > There ar…
> So it's an ego thing? It's a respect thing. It costs time and money to produce and give a talk. That very often isn't visible to the audience. It takes weeks of dedicated preparation to deliver a high-quality keynote talk, and people have day jobs and other obligations. If they're going to travel hundreds or thousands of miles and now have to pay for the privilege, they might want to not be treated as disposable. T…
People often get time off of work or school to be honored with formal talking gigs. IE your boss will let you off the hook to prepare for it because it makes your company/school look good. It'd be pretty embarrassing to have to explain to your boss or your PI that "oops I'm no longer a key note speaker"
Re: Why I Left Rust
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
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I really don't think that is what is going on here. So far, all I have heard anyone say is "Behavior occurred which should have been unacceptable regardless of who it happened to. By the way, the optics are particularly bad because of race issues."
Either it's a race issue or it's not. If it is, provide evidence of racism.
Insinuating racism makes me believe your nothing more than a racist and miscreant yourself (you not being you you obviously)
Re: Why I Left Rust
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd love to hear from someone who could outline the distinction between the two. I could certainly believe that it means the difference between the amount of attendees, length of presentation, venue, etc etc. In those cases, it's quite a big deal and quite the dick move, especially given the seemingly unilateral process to "downgrade" the presentation.
It's possible, but those weren't mentioned unless I missed something. The keynote was "start of the day, shared slot with somebody else, 30 minutes".[1] No mention of different length after the change, but I would assume it will mean a different timeslot. I think what happened is just the regular chaos, hub-hub, and disagreements that's involved with organising these things; since JeanHeyd himself already indicated h…
> just the regular chaos, hub-hub, and disagreements that's involved with organising these things
I dunno about you, but when I’m organizing these things the subject matter experts that you invite to take part are more important than the paying guests.
I would absolutely not invite them until I was 100% certain they’d have a spot. If something goes wrong there, it’d be either an extensive excuse or simply 3 keynotes.
Re: Why I Left Rust
#206Wait. Let me get this straight. Someone is an expert in this field. They're asked to speak at RustConf after a leadership vote. They've also written an article about reflection in Rust - a purely technical thing that is already pretty widely disliked conceptually. (EDIT: the talk was about this, but it's also compile time reflection and came with the usual disclaimer that it was not representative of any of the Rust…
Much less weight should be given to someone "feeling uncomfortable" Rust the language is pretty good but the community around it has become really off-putting. The thick veneer of empathy and compassion quickly devolves into "idiot compassion" and emotional blackmail. Even the linked post contains the following: "I left because when I felt JeanHeyd's pain and disappointment at being mistreated and betrayed, my heart…
I left because when I felt JeanHeyd's pain and disappointment at being mistreated and betrayed, my heart broke. I wept because of the cruelty.
I wouldn’t want to work with someone that wrote this. I’m not sure which is worse—if it’s hyperbole or it isn’t.
Re: Why I Left Rust
#207Wait. Let me get this straight. Someone is an expert in this field. They're asked to speak at RustConf after a leadership vote. They've also written an article about reflection in Rust - a purely technical thing that is already pretty widely disliked conceptually. (EDIT: the talk was about this, but it's also compile time reflection and came with the usual disclaimer that it was not representative of any of the Rust…
Notable that this was published on Friday evening/Saturday morning. The Rust project/leadership committee/RustConf folks need to coordinate, come to a consensus, make some painful decisions and communicate that with a united voice. That’s not going to happen on a weekend because some folks might not be available.
I agree with everything that the speaker and JT have said in their respective posts. This is unacceptable, it needs to be fixed and the person who was “uncomfortable” needs to be held accountable.
But I think it’s worth waiting for a couple of working days before picking up our pitchforks. Let’s give folks the benefit of the doubt. Let’s not ask the Rust committee to “grow up” when they haven’t done anything yet and haven’t even had a chance to respond.
Re: Why I Left Rust
#208Is this the same group who conjured up that _top-notch_ trademark policy? If so, how would the community go about removing them?
What is the deal with trademarks and rust? See a lot of people talking about it...
Re: Why I Left Rust
#209As a non-american I must say I don't understand where the latter half of the article comes from. Why care about race? Why must a racist reason be sought behind everything?
This stood out to me as well. Granted, the person people felt "uncomfortable" about only later tweeted out that the 0% black representation was an outlier, but I haven't heard much reason why this is relevant yet.
On the other hand, there's more going on than what's being told publicly. Perhaps racism does play a role in this. The use of the word "uncomfortable" without clear explanation suggests this is more than just "we don't want another reflection flame war".
It's possible that this person was just hoping to use the keynote speaker as a token of inclusiveness, but I have to wonder if there isn't more going on if racism is brought up after incredible vague notions of people feeling "uncomfortable" being given as a reason why they keynote speaker got demoted to a normal speaker either.
I'm hoping the remaining leadership owns up to their mistake, put out a detailed reason why the purely technical topic of reflection is making them so uncomfortable, and lay out proper measures to prevent this from happening again, with the necessary correctional measures applied to the leadership member who went behind the others' backs on changing the invitation. They'd also need to come up with a clear and honest apology, of course.
If they can't give a decent objective reason why they're so "uncomfortable", or don't get real professional real fast, there's much more drama to be had the coming weeks.
Re: Why I Left Rust
#210I love Rust but the ideological posturing and swathes of people who in their hearts are grifters is truly disappointing. Framing a technical presentation you disagree with as "making you uncomfortable" in highly manipulative fashion definitely deserves to be called out in public.
Indeed it should not be surprising that the community (leadership) who from the outside seems among the most concerned with codes of conduct, inclusion and so on, is actually not so virtuous at all. I am all for many of the stated goals of "woke" or whatever you want to call them, but it is really reminiscent of the politician who wants to ban porn but has his entire computer filled with it.
What if there are people who need laws, rules, processes to keep something at bay because they are actually suffering from addiction to the very thing they need to regulate.
If they believe that thing is wrong and they see how hard it is to resist, they of all people may jump on a bandwagon.