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Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

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Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#281

Post by herbst »

hkt wrote: post #278
herbst wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See Switzerland. Yes most of the time new ideas are not easily heart, but the whole population gets to hear it and vote on it. Yes more often than not Revolutionary or forward leaning ideas don't get a yes on the first glance. But at this point the whole population talked about the topic. And here comes the magic. A few years later a new idea arises better than any idea before and suddenly people get it. We talk and…

Don't get me wrong, I love the Swiss model of lots of referenda, very strong regional (canton) govt and a seven person executive, but also.. Swiss women didn't get the vote at federal level until 1991. Some changes are hard to pull off through referenda, others less so.

That's the other side of the book I guess. There are plenty more examples like this.

Imagine getting only men to vote yes to lose 50% of their voting power. Imagine getting a million farmers and their family's to vote for a drastic new way in ecological farming. Same issue, different times.

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#282

Post by jruohonen »

hutzlibu wrote: post #275
lern_too_spel wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you also want other national agencies to spy on US citizens without "being slowed down by too many procedures? They already do, and with less oversight. What makes you think the US not spying on them will change their behavior? > Further increasing the amount of illegal hacking for everyone. There is no law that prevents countries from spying on each other, so I don't know what you think is illegal here.

China and russia might have had no restraint like you. Agencies in EU countries actually did. "There is no law that prevents countries from spying on each other, so I don't know what you think is illegal here. " Depending on your definition of "law", is there a law preventing agencies from going somewhere else and killing and stealing as they see fit? International law is kind of complicated, but the basic idea is to…

> How would you consider the act, if a foreign agency would hack the Phone of Biden?

Well, mostly they do not seem to care that much. Politicians have probably the worst opsec of all people. Mrs. Merkel was a target, but so was President Macron recently:

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210720-phones-of-mac...

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#283

Post by hulitu »

saiya-jin wrote: post #266
phs318u wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pure democracy as you describe it, even if technically feasible, would still result in tyrannies and terrible outcomes. The biggest problem isn't lack of influence on the laws, it's lack of knowledge, reason, understanding and empathy. And that problem exists whether it's x number of people influencing the outcome, or 1,000,000x. Every negative influence that politicians are open to, the masses are also open to (thou…

There is at least 1 place where it works in some extent for 800 years - Switzerland. Public votes few times every year on basically anything enough people decide to vote on (100k signatures needed in 8m population and you have a public vote). You want to ban mosques, or join Nato or have 6 weeks of paid vacation? Have a say. Also weak central government, and strong cantonal ones with their own rules and laws. THAT is…

It is not working there also. See the Covid vaccine theater.

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#284

Post by dathos »

kossTKR wrote: post #59
amoshi wrote: post #44

>Intelligence professionals talk about how disorienting it is living on the inside. You read so much classified information about the world’s geopolitical events that you start seeing the world differently. You become convinced that only the insiders know what’s really going on, because the news media is so often wrong. Your family is ignorant. Your friends are ignorant. The world is ignorant. The only thing keeping…

So true. And don’t forget that these agencies answer to an elite group of people that benefit from specific world orders that promote various industrial complexes transnationally. And people that get too specific get daphnied, lombardied, assanged or jfk’ed. Or maybe not, but you won't find out because all media above a certain threshold is in a spotlight, and has been since before CIA bragged about its all encompass…

I often wondered what could be the reason that triggers the “dead internet” theory. And muddying the information we can share freely means we cannot share freely anymore.

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#285

Post by hutzlibu »

jruohonen wrote: post #282
hutzlibu wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China and russia might have had no restraint like you. Agencies in EU countries actually did. "There is no law that prevents countries from spying on each other, so I don't know what you think is illegal here. " Depending on your definition of "law", is there a law preventing agencies from going somewhere else and killing and stealing as they see fit? International law is kind of complicated, but the basic idea is to…

> How would you consider the act, if a foreign agency would hack the Phone of Biden? Well, mostly they do not seem to care that much. Politicians have probably the worst opsec of all people. Mrs. Merkel was a target, but so was President Macron recently: https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210720-phones-of-mac...

But I do believe the US government regulary makes an outcry because of russian or china hacking. And into NATO doctrin was a passage included, that makes physical strikes against hackers possible. So they do care.

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#286

Post by willis936 »

jancsika wrote: post #170
dralley wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I tolerate the spook-adjacent types in my field who parrot absurd official lines and slogans about russian interference because being seen to align with it is just how they are trying to survive I present to you a real, still-active Russian troll account. https://twitter.com/blackintheempir How do I know it's a troll account? Take a look at this: https://twitter.com/reshetz/status/1662112840554098688 Just like "Ther…

> I present to you a real, still-active Russian troll account. Looks pretty recent and active. At this point, is there an employee behind that account or a LLM?

I'm going to go on a limb and say the cheaper one: the human.

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#287

Post by Broken_Hippo »

saiya-jin wrote: post #266
phs318u wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pure democracy as you describe it, even if technically feasible, would still result in tyrannies and terrible outcomes. The biggest problem isn't lack of influence on the laws, it's lack of knowledge, reason, understanding and empathy. And that problem exists whether it's x number of people influencing the outcome, or 1,000,000x. Every negative influence that politicians are open to, the masses are also open to (thou…

There is at least 1 place where it works in some extent for 800 years - Switzerland. Public votes few times every year on basically anything enough people decide to vote on (100k signatures needed in 8m population and you have a public vote). You want to ban mosques, or join Nato or have 6 weeks of paid vacation? Have a say. Also weak central government, and strong cantonal ones with their own rules and laws. THAT is…

As another poster pointed out: Swiss women couldn't vote in national elections until 1991. Democracy isn't a perfect system, it is just that having a system with some democracy in it is the best we've come up with so far.

Any minority will never truly have a say. It doesn't matter if you can vote if you don't have enough numbers to make a difference. Your best bet would be that folks tire of voting on these - but that's only if you can get enough signatures. Hope you can work and get signatures at the same time and that you aren't in too poor health to do this.

It isn't 'freedom', it is just another way to be tyrannical and claim there is "freedom". It isn't like folks born in a country/region can just move somewhere else. Heck, folks fleeing actual war have some issues with this.

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#288

Post by jruohonen »

hutzlibu wrote: post #285
jruohonen wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How would you consider the act, if a foreign agency would hack the Phone of Biden? Well, mostly they do not seem to care that much. Politicians have probably the worst opsec of all people. Mrs. Merkel was a target, but so was President Macron recently: https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210720-phones-of-mac...

But I do believe the US government regulary makes an outcry because of russian or china hacking. And into NATO doctrin was a passage included, that makes physical strikes against hackers possible. So they do care.

Increasingly so, yes. In general, hypothetical kinetic responses to non-kinetic actions is a somewhat dangerous direction in my opinion, given the current geopolitical turbulence.

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#289

Post by neuronic »

zoogeny wrote: post #205

In the last ten years technology has increased substantially. In the last five years AI has advanced significantly. That is worth really letting sink in. I try my best to avoid every kind of online discussion on these topics that I reasonably can avoid. Some might even see it as paranoia. But I assume that every single thing I post online (or say on the phone, send in text, or write in emails) is traceable back to me…

Will Gov-GPT then invent answers and generate a profile that is a potpourri of several random folks details?

If you need clear facts without the possibility for r/confidentlyincorrect material then I don't believe GPTs are the tools of choice.

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#290

Post by snarfy »

throwaway892238 wrote: post #176

Years ago, when I interviewed at places that did USG-related work, the stuff I heard about that I didn't have to sign an NDA to hear , scared me enough that I knew Snowden-scale stuff was entirely within the capabilities of the US Govt. I didn't realize they would use it against us just blatantly in direct violation of every law put in place to prevent it, though. I think the lesson I learned from the Snowden leaks i…

I kind of had this realization when reading about things the government did in the past, like air-drop LSD onto soldiers, agent-orange, psychic experiments, and other nonsense.

My first instinct was 'wow, those wacky 60's', but then it slowly dawned on me 'what's changed?'. Nothing, nothing has changed.

I wonder what they are doing today.

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