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Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

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Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#11

Post by CrazyStat »

DirectorKrennic wrote: post #2

[flagged]

I suppose this is supposed to make Snowden look bad. It doesn't.

The author is James Clapper, who Snowden's revelations proved lied in Congressional testimony about whether the NSA was collecting information on millions of Americans. So when he says that "multiple executive branch agencies, Congress, and federal courts [...] were all aware of and conducted oversight of the very programs that concerned [Snowden]," he's talking about the Congress that he lied to about these programs. How are we supposed to trust that Congress can conduct effective oversight when the intelligence community lies to them?

(We shouldn't.)

Snowden embarrassed the intelligence community and they won't forgive him for it. Americans (and others) should take that into account when they read or listen to the intelligence community's criticisms of Snowden.

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#13

Post by viktorcode »

tootie wrote: post #6

Serious question, why are the Snowden leaks so revered and not the reporting of James Risen several years earlier? Risen exposed operation Stellar Wind which was the grossest abuse of spying apparatus approved by the Bush admin over the express objections of their own DOJ. Risen also appeared in court for every summons about his activities and was dutifully defended by the NYT until he was ultimately exonerated.

IMO because of the impact they had in the media. I would argue Snowden revelations put privacy and data protection questions on top of the list across the world, for instance.

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#14

Post by iJohnDoe »

I think people would be surprised and sickened to know just how cooperative the big tech companies are with the intelligence agencies. Microsoft is especially cooperative, even as going so far to make sure their systems are compatible with surveillance systems. Yes, Telcos have had to this as well, but I don’t think many people know that Microsoft has proactively done this.

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#15

Post by colordrops »

tootie wrote: post #6

Serious question, why are the Snowden leaks so revered and not the reporting of James Risen several years earlier? Risen exposed operation Stellar Wind which was the grossest abuse of spying apparatus approved by the Bush admin over the express objections of their own DOJ. Risen also appeared in court for every summons about his activities and was dutifully defended by the NYT until he was ultimately exonerated.

Because you had journalists and documentarians like Greenwald and Poitras doing an amazing job of getting the story out there.

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#16

Post by cronix »

93po wrote: post #7
DirectorKrennic wrote: post #2

[flagged]

> the secrets Snowden was releasing were revealing to our adversaries and international terrorist groups how to avoid or thwart our surveillance. Good, maybe this will incentivize intelligence agencies to not abuse their power knowing people will whistle-blow and reveal secrets. When you remove all other methods of accountability, this is what happens. Intelligence agencies did this to themselves.

Maybe, but more likely, if history has anything to show, is that they just become more draconian in their methods as well as increased ability to identify and go after leakers.

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#17

Post by ok_dad »

93po wrote: post #7
DirectorKrennic wrote: post #2

[flagged]

> the secrets Snowden was releasing were revealing to our adversaries and international terrorist groups how to avoid or thwart our surveillance. Good, maybe this will incentivize intelligence agencies to not abuse their power knowing people will whistle-blow and reveal secrets. When you remove all other methods of accountability, this is what happens. Intelligence agencies did this to themselves.

Exactly. They talk about how he ruined their ability to spy on bad guys, but never mention how they were missing that ability to spy on citizens and friendly foreign governments. Maybe if they had stuck to spying on bad guys, Snowden would still be using his intellect today to help them.

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#18

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

iJohnDoe wrote: post #14

I think people would be surprised and sickened to know just how cooperative the big tech companies are with the intelligence agencies. Microsoft is especially cooperative, even as going so far to make sure their systems are compatible with surveillance systems. Yes, Telcos have had to this as well, but I don’t think many people know that Microsoft has proactively done this.

> Microsoft is especially cooperative, even as going so far to make sure their systems are compatible with surveillance systems.

I don't doubt you but a reference would help folks know what to make of this.

Re: Reflections on Ten Years Past the Snowden Revelations

#20

Post by hgsgm »

tootie wrote: post #6

Serious question, why are the Snowden leaks so revered and not the reporting of James Risen several years earlier? Risen exposed operation Stellar Wind which was the grossest abuse of spying apparatus approved by the Bush admin over the express objections of their own DOJ. Risen also appeared in court for every summons about his activities and was dutifully defended by the NYT until he was ultimately exonerated.

2004, far less Internet connectivity to sustain awareness and outrage, and less impact.

Our lives weren't nearly as completely mediated by online services.

"Total Information Awareness" made a splash in the news around 2004 also, but then faded.

Also, Bush's team was busy outraging everyone so many other ways, like blowing up Iraq for oil money, and making up nonsense legal defenses for kidnapping and physical torture of civilians.

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