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Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

economist.com

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Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#81

Post by spaniard89277 »

agumonkey wrote: post #46
spaniard89277 wrote: post #26

Make housing affordable with denser mixed-use zoning: You solved 50% of the problem. Make public transport convenient. You solved another 30%. People needs to be able to stay frugal in rough times and socialize. It feels to me that many US cities make this impossible. If you had Spain levels of unemployment I have no idea how would you do.

If I read you correctly, the social fabric in spain (urban planning, gatherings) makes difficult times bearable ? I'm quite interested in this because I anticipate we'll all need this when climate becomes too dire.

IMO urbanism plays a key role. Spanish cities are very dense, and until recently provided cheap housing with a mix of public-private developments.

This isn't the case anymore (price wisw, still dense) and it's having effects on the social fabric.

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#82

Post by 0xy »

RhodesianHunter wrote: post #61
idlewords wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not going to find open-air downtown drug markets, public defecation and decriminalized theft in Mississippi or Arkansas. For that, you need to visit one of our progressive West Coast cities.

That's because Mississippi And Arkansas are too damned poor to support the homeless. They've pushed them all out to the West coast where people actually have pocket change to give them.

Can you explain how the homeless people who defecate on the streets because of a lack of facilities and shoot up drugs in parks are better off on the West Coast?

Drugs are taken and sold openly in San Francisco and LA.

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#83

Post by throwaway6734 »

flangola7 wrote: post #66
throwaway6734 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can't buy the government they want. They'd dump tons of money into candidates that would get crushed due to the insane progressive tilt of most SF voters or they'd get in for a term or two, which is not enough time

Why would progressives not vote for policies that expand housing and provide direct assistance and funding to the homeless?

Policies are generally not that clean cut and clear.

Many progressives already fight against policies that would increase housing (like adding overly burdensome restrictions to the development process)

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#85

Post by panarchy »

Mizoguchi wrote: post #33
spaniard89277 wrote: post #26

Make housing affordable with denser mixed-use zoning: You solved 50% of the problem. Make public transport convenient. You solved another 30%. People needs to be able to stay frugal in rough times and socialize. It feels to me that many US cities make this impossible. If you had Spain levels of unemployment I have no idea how would you do.

Let's ignore that almost 100% of the homeless population in America is addicted to drugs. Having experienced drug abuse myself I know for a fact affordable housing is not going to do anything for these folks. They need treatment, and that unfortunately doesn't happen voluntarily when you are sick.

That's why the goal of many "affordable housing" and "housing first" initiatives is to provide a space with easy (often mandated) access to social workers, occupational therapists, and addiction therapists in addition to a place where people can sleep without being harassed and have a shower.

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#86

Post by rufus_foreman »

RhodesianHunter wrote: post #25
golemotron wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why one party rule is bad.

Just look at the bottom ten states for any measurable statistic people care about. Healthcare outcomes, standard of living, GDP per Capita, poverty, educational attainment, obesity, etc. All deep dark red.

California has the highest poverty level of any state in the US under the Census Bureau's Supplemental Poverty Measure.

https://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publicatio...

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#87

Post by ihaveajob »

papito wrote: post #10

What amazes me is that the Valley gazillionaires are not spending their fortunes to fix their own habitat. They can just BUY the city government they want. Instead, they are shoving mountains of cash to turn the United States into some perverted libertarian fantasy, where the government is weak, paralyzed, ineffectual, and out of their way OH WAIT.

Mr "It's time to build" and spouse went out of their way to lobby their city against a proposed multi-family housing project. That says it all.

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#88

Post by phpisthebest »

spaniard89277 wrote: post #45
Mizoguchi wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's ignore that almost 100% of the homeless population in America is addicted to drugs. Having experienced drug abuse myself I know for a fact affordable housing is not going to do anything for these folks. They need treatment, and that unfortunately doesn't happen voluntarily when you are sick.

Were you born addicted to drugs? People needs treatment and a path to become useful members of society again. Affordable housing makes a lot of poor people able to save money and help their peers.

anyone that has any depth of knowelege of the homeless knows there are generally 2 types of homeless population.

Transitory economic homeless, these homeless can be assisted by affordable housing, housing first, and other programs. Often these homeless of covered pretty well by current homeless programs, as they are the type of homeless people most easily identify with, and engineer programs to solve.

Then there are chronic non-economic homeless. For this group it is not economic issues they face no amount of affordable, or even free housing will make them not homeless, even if you give them a home chances are they will not stay in it. CA has an outsized portion of the latter type of homeless population, and only have programs designed for the former, that is why the problem does not get better. Infact many of CA programs actively harm the latter population

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#89

Post by hotpotamus »

throwaway6734 wrote: post #36
RhodesianHunter wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just look at the bottom ten states for any measurable statistic people care about. Healthcare outcomes, standard of living, GDP per Capita, poverty, educational attainment, obesity, etc. All deep dark red.

Exactly. One party rule is bad. The failurs of the GOP to put up viable local candidates in SF and the the Democrats in deep red states are not good for the health of the country

I used to hear conservatives lament that large cities were unwinnable for Republican candidate, and these days I don't even hear that; it seems that they just accept it as a law of nature that they will be governed by Democrats. And as an example, Jacksonville, Florida just flipped that way.

And I wonder - what would Republicans offer a city? My assumption is that they'd just blow a hole in any city budget with tax cuts for the wealthy, thereby achieving defunding of city services, but that's my bias. Still it doesn't seem like anyone in a big metro is buying what they're selling to the point where the Republicans don't even seem to try selling it anymore.

Re: Downtown San Francisco is at a tipping-point

#90

Post by ninjagoo »

SF City had a 2021 GDP of $230 Billion [1]. The City had a budget of $6B in 2007. [2]

What do folks on here think - if the City could cut the homeless population in half for $100 Million per year, would it be worth it? How about $50 Million per year to cut it by 25%, would that be worth it? [3]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_San_Francisco [3] 7800 homeless [4]. $2k rent per month. [4] https://archive.is/IkYHB

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