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Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

jalopnik.com

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Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#521

Post by bjornasm »

TheCaptain4815 wrote: post #151
jyscao wrote: post #55

IMO Tesla would be better if they focused solely on making good EVs, rather than also trying to become the leader in self-driving. I get that they're trying to create a wider moat against their competitors, but if their self-driving software are found to have systematic failure modes in them as these internal docs seem to suggest, then that could very well do more harm to their reputation in the long run.

Elons point on cars being worth 5x as much with self driving shouldn’t be dismissed. If a car that costs $25,000 to manufacture all of a sudden can be driven 40-50 hours a week automatically, how much is that car now worth? So I totally disagree on that end, as do most investors given teslas enormous valuation.

I mean it would be worth 10x as much if its also made you breakfast but it don't and it won't.

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#522

Post by redeeman »

mattigames wrote: post #248
otterley wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the U.S., product-liability law allows you to sue the product's manufacturer (and everyone else in its supply chain including retailer); you don't have to sue the driver under some sort of "negligent ownership" theory. (IAAL, but this is greatly simplified -- consult a licensed attorney.)

Except guns of course, because... America.

you are being extremely misleading and agendaed here. Either you have been brainwashed by propaganda, or you are intentionally doing it.

You cannot sue Mercedes if someone decides to use a car they manufactured to ram into people on the sidewalk. Well, Maybe you can sue, but you can absolutely not win.

On the same line of logic, you absolutely can not sue Walmart if your relative gets stabbed by a knife they sold, Had manufactured, or similar.

And then along the same line of logic, you cannot sue a gun manufacturer/dealer if someone decides to use a gun they sold/manufactured to harm someone.

Guns dont kill, people kill.

IF however a gun manufacturer ran advertising suggesting people buy their guns to shoot up farmers markets, schools etc. Or if gun sellers ran advertising with subliminal messages urging people to whack their neighbor, well then you absolutely CAN sue them, and would probably have a good case.

More similarly to this case here, IF a gun manufacturer made a gun that is obviously defective, leading to injury/death, and you had a leaker come and show evidence they knew about it, and didnt care, well then you would probably have a good case aswell.

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#523

Post by redeeman »

mattigames wrote: post #480
otterley wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument that a firearm that kills or injures someone when used correctly is a defective product is a difficult one to make because, well, that's what it was designed to do. However, if a poorly-designed or -built firearm blows up in the user's hand, then that would probably be considered defective, and the injured person might well prevail on a defective-product liability claim.

Maybe companies should design new car models specifically to kill, that way when it happens they can truthfully claim it was exactly what it was designed to do, it would work regardless if it happens by accident or intentional as long as the buyer is not the victim, exactly like with guns.

[flagged]

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#525

Post by badpun »

philippejara wrote: post #469
JumpinJack_Cash wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point is that you first sign off the effing self-driving car, then you get your effing money. That is what we used to do in America, since the days of JD Rockefeller, Henry Ford...but also Steve Jobs and Bill Gates and Larry Ellison. I mean I used Windows before Gates became richest man in the world and so did hundreds of millions of people. Musk got to #1 by selling go karts to a handful of rich people and promises…

so what do you propose is to be done? you simply stop people from buying tesla stock so that the price doesn't go up and he doesn't get as much money? Seriously i'm really struggling to understand what you are proposing here.

You stop the fed from printing so much money. I mean, right now it's too late, but for the future, it would be a good policy.

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#526

Post by usr1106 »

pfd1986 wrote: post #384
joshspankit wrote: post #367

Is it just me, or are these numbers almost low enough to be labelled positive PR? > The Tesla files contain more than 2,400 self-acceleration complaints and more than 1,500 braking function problems, including 139 cases of unintentional emergency braking and 383 reported phantom stops resulting from false collision warnings. The number of crashes is more than 1000. A table of incidents involving driver assistance sys…

In Germany alone and for a period of time.

No. Despite the data being leaked to German newspaper most cases are reportedly from the US.

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#527

Post by badpun »

jliptzin wrote: post #336
highwaylights wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if that reasoning were true, the valuation for Tesla doesn’t make much sense, given they’re not remotely close to a self-driving car in the way that the average customer would understand it. They’re not delayed by a few years. The problem is intractable , unless you can limit the journey to a controlled scope. I drive over multiple pathways and grassy lanes a week that aren’t mapped and have no markings. A self-…

FSD is a very small component of Tesla' current stock price. Some dumbasses are certainly buying Tesla because they think FSD is right around the corner, but dumbasses tend to not have a lot of money. For any Tesla price estimate, you've got to pick a number, how many million vehicles the company will ship in say 2025. Then pick an Average Selling Price, profit margin, and P/E multiple. Divide by 3 billion to get the…

> Considering Tesla is on track to deliver 1.8M vehicles this year and the delivery growth trajectory it's been on, 4M is a good target goal for 2025, $45k ASP, 10% profit margin, 30 P/E . . . from that I get $180, so today's price is fair as a base case for 2025.

That's a lot of assumptions. Why not wait 3 years till all those projections materialize, and buy it then for $180 (if the price is still there)? Currently, if you buy at $180, you're discounting all the uncertainty and risk included in your calculations. Not to mention, even if you're right, the stock will be worth $180 in 3 years from now, which means your money will be idling for 3 years if you buy now.

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#528

Post by haspok »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #413
yumraj wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Elons point on cars being worth 5x as much .... all of a sudden can be driven 40-50 hours a week ... Look at it this way, assume humans drive, or need to be driven/travel, X miles per year. Today, assuming a car drives Y miles per year, the market needs X/Y cars. Given your argument, with self driving, a car runs nY miles per year, the demand for car will drop to X/nY , basically 1/n of before or maybe a little more…

If cars drive themselves, you can let them out as Ubers when you don’t need to drive it. That could definitely mean less cars if they are priced aggressively. Peak is still a problem, but public transit can focus on peak rather than non peak (assuming Robo taxis are price efficient). Even if we need 1/5 cars (and EVs do last longer, so without self driving, this will happen anyways), as long as the lost cars come fro…

> If cars drive themselves, you can let them out as Ubers when you don’t need to drive it.

This does not require self driving btw, but a more important question is: would you really? Would you let strangers in your private car? Would you want to clean it afterwards? Would you accept damages other people do to you car? Would it still be your car if strangers use it far more than you do? And at this point we have arrived at car sharing, which already exists today...

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#529

Post by usr1106 »

iknowstuff wrote: post #96
zizee wrote: post #44

How different is this from any other similar sized companies behaviour? This site doesn't seem that impartial/unbiased. From a linked article on Tesla: > It’s also worth noting that the above email was sent after 2 a.m. Pacific, which isn’t specifically relevant to the faked video. But it does make it look like Musk is a loser with no friends or anything else to do other than work. Loser.

Jalopnik is absolutely garbage "journalism", they have a long long history of hating on Tesla.

They only refer to a respected German business newspaper which seems to have reasonable journalism.

That doesn't mean that those journalists are necessarily completely unbiased. Germany's traditional car industry is threatened by Tesla without any doubt.

However, the details on how Tesla is handling these reports is revealing and I have no doubts that they are real. That those who publish them might not like Tesla does not change that.

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