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Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

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Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#161

Post by joshgachnang »

dmbche wrote: post #123
iknowstuff wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every customer complaint about unintended acceleration of Teslas was proven in court to be the fault of the customer confusing the pedals. The accelerator pedal has two independent sensors measuring input - they both have to agree, and no input on the brake pedal must be detected for the vehicle to accelerate. They go a step further. They use their cameras to detect the environment and significantly slow down acceler…

Would you have a link to that? I'd be interested to look. As a side note, I've never heard of confusing the pedals as an issue for ANY car, so if Telsa's get people to confuse them enough to bring them to court, it's probably bad design. Edit: The US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates 16,000 accidents per year in the United States occur when drivers intend to apply the brake but mistakenly apply…

I think it's more that if someone does it in a Tesla, it makes for good headlines and generates clicks, so we hear about it. Someone in my hometown confused the pedals in an ICE car a few years ago, made a small blurb in our tiny newspaper, nowhere else. Same with cars catching on fire. Happens all the time, but when it happens to a Tesla, you see it in the national news.

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#162

Post by asdff »

xenospn wrote: post #98
buildbot wrote: post #2

I avoid driving anywhere near Tesla’s, especially tailing them. Phantom braking is not okay.

sadly this is virtually impossible in Los Angeles.

The Tesla drivers in LA are like an upper echelon of terrible Tesla drivers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd0IpJFSZ10

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#163

Post by andybak »

robertlagrant wrote: post #111
buildbot wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but an unexpected full ABS lock when you can see nothing in front of the tesla is going to be yard for most to react quickly too even at a decent distance. 10 second follow distances are only possible in most metros during very light traffic.

You only need 2 seconds to be safe. It's longer than you think.

3 is the guidance in the UK at least

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#164

Post by dylan604 »

valine wrote: post #14
George83728 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I treat them like semi-trucks on the highway. Pass them or let them pass you, but don't loiter alongside, behind or in front of one.

Why are you loitering beside other cars? This is a good safety practice regardless of the car’s make and model.

Most people are pretty much unaware of anything outside of their car other than for the couple of seconds they look up from their phone to look at the car in front of them. Look to the sides? That's too much time away from the screen in their hand! /s (only partially)

Since my time of learning to drive, the requirement to have formal driving training has ping ponged in being a requirement or not. The number of hours as an observer is just as important as the hours being behind the wheel. One of the things repeatedly mentioned by the instructor was to not drive side by side any car unless absolutely necessary. It was also a recurring theme in my repeated defensive driving classes. I also have an uncle that drove trucks for a long time, and he would tell stories of things he saw on the road. A relevant story was when one of the wheels of a tractor-trailor doing 70mph down the highway lost the outside wheel of the trailer and seeing the damage it cause the car driving along side. All of that added together makes me never like to have a car on my sides and I will speed up or slow down (which ever has more space available) to avoid it. For those that did not have to take a driving course, this is just information they may never have been provided.

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#165

Post by advael »

throwaway2214 wrote: post #133
advael wrote: post #6

Gatekeep, gaslight, girlboss The official policy to deprive customers and victims of information as much as possible is shocking from the standpoint of being flagrantly, cynically customer-hostile to the point of probable illegality, but it's right out of both Musk's normal playbook and that of his erstwhile colleagues at e.g. Paypal For me, cars cross a very key danger threshold, which I express like this: "I am tru…

[flagged]

Bullshit, full stop.

We live in a society with deep dependency chains on technology we can't possibly understand as individuals, that much is true

But all of those technologies are subject to independent auditing and regulation to make up for that lack of verifiability on an individual level. It is technologically feasible to apply that kind of standard to computer technologies, and in fact I would argue that it's much easier than it is for a lot of other kinds of technology we rely on. That our willingness at a political level to do so is lacking is a corruption issue, not a feasibility one.

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#166

Post by vgt »

jjoonathan wrote: post #139
jacquesm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bigger problem is that I am trusting my life to you using it. This goes way beyond defective product and normal risk, the fact that these things happen endangers everybody on the road, not just those that decided to throw in their lot with Tesla.

Tesla self-driving is better than a bad human driver. There are loads of bad human drivers on the road. Someone has to be liable, but I don't really care if it falls to Musk or a Musk simp. I do care if we kick yet another key technology out of the US only to have to rent it back years later when someone else picks up the torch. Let's not do that.

I am not sure I agree with your assessment. Last time I was in a FSD Tesla, it repeatedly tried to run red lights and didn't know how to merge lanes on a freeway...

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#167

Post by ajross »

hammock wrote: post #120
eterevsky wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a manufacturer is selling millions of cars, I think it's better to judge their safety using statistics rather than some qualitative reasoning. Are Teslas measurably less safe than other cars? I.e. is the accident probability per km driven on a Tesla higher than on another car? I haven't seen any data suggesting that, but I'm happy to be corrected.

>When a manufacturer is selling millions of cars, I think it's better to judge their safety using statistics rather than some qualitative reasoning. Why do you think that? If we used statistics to guide criminal justice policy we’d be in big trouble

> If we used statistics to guide criminal justice policy we’d be in big trouble

Uh... we do use statistics to guide criminal justice policy? Not sure I understand what you're saying. How do you think they decide where to police and what to prosecute? How they decide on legislative penalties? It's true that this process isn't necessarily 100% data based, and in a bunch of ways ends up very unfair, but it's absolutely driven by a mostly-sincere attempt to get the most social good out of our limited enforcement and regulatory budgets.

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#169

Post by harles »

jjoonathan wrote: post #139
jacquesm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bigger problem is that I am trusting my life to you using it. This goes way beyond defective product and normal risk, the fact that these things happen endangers everybody on the road, not just those that decided to throw in their lot with Tesla.

Tesla self-driving is better than a bad human driver. There are loads of bad human drivers on the road. Someone has to be liable, but I don't really care if it falls to Musk or a Musk simp. I do care if we kick yet another key technology out of the US only to have to rent it back years later when someone else picks up the torch. Let's not do that.

> Tesla self-driving is better than a bad human driver.

Genuine question: what evidence is there of this?

Re: Whistleblower drops 100 GB of Tesla secrets to German news site

#170

Post by Finnucane »

TheCaptain4815 wrote: post #151
jyscao wrote: post #55

IMO Tesla would be better if they focused solely on making good EVs, rather than also trying to become the leader in self-driving. I get that they're trying to create a wider moat against their competitors, but if their self-driving software are found to have systematic failure modes in them as these internal docs seem to suggest, then that could very well do more harm to their reputation in the long run.

Elons point on cars being worth 5x as much with self driving shouldn’t be dismissed. If a car that costs $25,000 to manufacture all of a sudden can be driven 40-50 hours a week automatically, how much is that car now worth? So I totally disagree on that end, as do most investors given teslas enormous valuation.

Is there a big market for $125,000 cars? Who needs a car 40 hours a week?
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