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Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

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Re: Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

#151

Post by soco »

robertlagrant wrote: post #77
soco wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The regulation is meant to protect the EU citizens which couldn't care less about the financial incentives of a US company or their hype du jour. If hypothetically no AI can be created with respecting the citizens, what should the choice be, block or accept Skynet? (I said "hypothetically")

> If hypothetically no AI can be created with respecting the citizens The problem is you're assuming the people writing the regulations are perfect. It's not that bad AI should exist, it's that we're probably at least a decade away from regulators even having a hope of starting to understand what's going on.

Why should I assume anything? We are what we are and we do what we can with what we have - imperfect as it is. Inactivity is way worse. By the way understanding all things (AI or whatever) is definitely not a requirement for the legislators. I'm sure you remember they have hordes of specialists in their staff and those will understand the aspects at hand to sketch recommendations.

Re: Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

#152

Post by spacebanana7 »

Fnoord wrote: post #150
spacebanana7 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VAT, employment taxes and regulatory fines are hard to avoid paying in the EU, even if corporate profit taxes get moved around a bit.

"moved around a bit" well, the amount which gets moved around is enormous. I don't know how its done now (I do know its still being done), but the way it was done was it was getting moved to The Netherlands to Ireland to The Netherlands. There's even a Dutch term for such a company: brievenbusfirma, and the location knows for them residing: Amsterdam Zuidas. So we get the curious situation where Ikea is a Dutch compa…

VAT is the largest tax most software companies pay and the one most difficult to avoid. EU VAT rates are some of the highest in the world.

Corporation tax may be avoided but that's true of every geography so doesn't affect the comparison of EU vs non-EU.

About compliance costs - the majority of >$1B tech fines come out of the EU.

Re: Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

#153

Post by cm2012 »

epolanski wrote: post #146
cm2012 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cambridge Analytica had basically no effect on any election. People who actually understand online advertising consider it a joke. The "organic" social stuff that helped Trump 2016 (leaked Democrat emails, etc) had nothing to do with privacy or ads.

Cambridge Analytica's sold their services literally as "election management agency" and promised to be able to influence a large number of undecided voters. More than 87M people were profiled, and more than 3M people were targeted by Cambridge Analytica in 11 key states during the election to feed them the content that would swing their indecision towards Trump based on their psychological profile and preferences. Tr…

Imagine that someone says Trump hacked the voting computers by writing code on a piece of paper and slotting it into the machines.

The CA thing is the same level of stupid. The targeting would just be senselessly bad based on CA's methodology.

Re: Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

#154

Post by robertlagrant »

Tangurena2 wrote: post #141
robertlagrant wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just thinking about the wrong level of regulation. Not all goods need to have CE marking, or get audited regularly, or anything like that. I can go to someone who makes furniture in their shop and buy that furniture without them ever contacting the British Standards Institute.

You can't buy it if you can't agree about what money is. That's one of those pesky regulations.

As I say, the wrong level of regulation.

Re: Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

#155

Post by MichaelZuo »

Tangurena2 wrote: post #140
themitigating wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a tactic of all businesses. In the US they play states against each other to get higher and higher tax breaks for moving.

The name for it is Boulwarism [0]. It is a "take it or leave it" attitude. You see it every day when presented with an "I agree" checkbox/button. 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boulwarism

I don't see the difference from normal pricing, it's take it or leave it in nearly all retail contexts nowadays.

Re: Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

#156

Post by blibble »

xiphias2 wrote: post #137
ttlsa wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If, hypothetically, a SkyNet like AI actually existed, how much damage to humanity would you be ok with as long as productivity and quality of life went up went up for those who were spared? Let's assume that you and your loved ones are among those who have been guaranteed safety by this AI. I am sorry if the tone comes across as snarky. Not my intention. Genuinely curious.

My comment was about if it's starting to exist, EU regulatation won't stop its power and influence. If everyone uses ChatSkyNet for programming (or even ChatGPT-4), but EU is not allowed, EU will simply lose its competitiveness in creating products.

> My comment was about if it's starting to exist, EU regulatation won't stop its power and influence.

it... might?

it possibly existing in the future is not a good reason to lay down and just surrender control of world governance to ChatGPT today

Re: Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

#157

Post by thunkshift1 »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #22
lemoncookiechip wrote: post #12

So, he wants regulation but only if it benefits him: https://www.reuters.com/technology/openai-chief-goes-before-...

why else would anyone want it?

For starters to, say, protect privacy and intellectual property? Both of those areas are kind of under served in the current ai models landscape

Re: Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

#158

Post by fallingknife »

sharemywin wrote: post #106
jamincan wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since a company is usually harmed by increased regulation their opinion is biased. I know this is the prevailing point of view in business, but is it actually true? How many bank failures would have been avoided if US banking regulations hadn't been slackened so much?

When the government covers your loses and even let's you take bonuses for fucking up and causing a recission why wouldn't you think regulations slows you down. how many guns would get sold if the government didn't created laws that protects the industry from liability. or section 230 which shields websites from the rent seeking of the cable companies but allows them to rent seek advertisers.

Common sense is what protects gun manufacturers from liability. If you run someone over with your car, Ford is not liable either.

Re: Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

#159

Post by ilyt »

scarface74 wrote: post #119
ilyt wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every thread about GDPR have people (I assume from US, especially given it being HN) whining how "hard" it is to implement (just don't store user data by default, how hard is that?) and how "overbearing" it is. Then big surprise when another news about US spying on its citizens harder than people thought drops...

If the law is that simple, then why did it take 11 chapters and 99 sections to say that?

If you don't store user data none of those applies.

If you do want to store the data, those just specify what and how with enough detail that battalion of Facebook lawyers can't go around it. It's mostly sensible when you get around to implementing it.

For example if you store data for say CCTV purpose, you have to tell people they are being monitored, for what reason, who administers the data etc.

Article 6 covers filming the public spaces i.e. they don't have to give written consent because the extra security of security cameras provide considered greater good than individual.

But at same time it allows processing only for those purposes. You can't just go on facebook and post some video from security camera of someone doing dumb shit. You can't just film inside toilet. You can go and monetize it in any way etc.

You also need to do the rest of due diligence of making it secure, not sharing with 3rd parties unrelated to the goal etc.

IIRC some company got $200k for doing exactly that, just posting basically some dumb shit people did, without even blurring out the people in all of the videos. Which triggered an audit that discovered that way more people that should had access to security footage.

Similar things apply to storing and analyzing logs for security purpose. They are considered "greater good" under article 6 and you can store and use them for, say, blocking malicious users on WAF, but you can't then go and handle it to your marketing team and you would have to anonymize it if you for example wanted to give those logs to developers to debug problems.

Re: Sam Altman Says OpenAI Will Leave the EU If There's Any Real AI Regulation

#160

Post by ilyt »

scarface74 wrote: post #147
mschuster91 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because European laws tend to be very precise and detailed, so that people can rely on them instead of a situation in the US where the effective boundaries of the law are only created in the subsequent years by the courts. It is easier to read the law and the cover text explaining the reasoning behind the regulations than to read a vague US/UK style law and then having to research court rulings, looking which of thes…

And yet small businesses in the EU are still getting caught up in it.

Of course, because vast variety of businesses had no security whatsoever and a bunch of PII could just be accessed by anyone on file share.

Vast majority of cases are "we haven't even tried in the first place"

And majority of fines are in range of 4 to low 5 digit.

At least from what I observed the "mistakes" are generally fined pretty low if organization can prove it took necessary steps in goodwill, but stuff like "not telling users about the breach" is treated VERY harshly

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