Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

cnn.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 351 posts

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#121

Post by Joky »

kcplate wrote: post #95
superfrank wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It has been proven that knowledge workers can work productively and efficiently without being required to be in the office a set number of days. I'm a big proponent of "I don't care where you work as long as your work gets done" and have been since before covid, but I haven't come across anything that actually proves that, so... source? If there's a good study out there that shows that that is true, I'd love to see…

It’s my opinion that people feel like they are more productive at WFH, but it’s a bit of a hard metric to actually measure. I get the sense that the freedom and flexibility might create a feeling of personal productivity to accomplish many things (not just career related) they couldn’t before WFH, but as for job productivity…I bet it’s probably a wash overall. I say this as a remote worker who wouldn’t want to RTO—be…

There is something to be said about individual productivity (whatever that means in a very innovative/creative environment) vs team/company output, just today I saw this in my feed: https://flocrivello.com/changing-my-mind-on-remote-about-bei... And that's coming from someone who actually tried to build a business out of remote work (TeamFlow was the product).

I can be much more productive at home when it is about my individual contribution (me coding to deliver something unambiguous), but xxx individuals doing this does not necessarily align into a great product: that does not scale.

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#122

Post by blodstone »

kryogen1c wrote: post #108
neom wrote: post #13

I still think out of all the...unique... things Elon has said... work from home is morally wrong has to take the cake. I try to spend time looking at things as radically as I can. I think it's helpful to accept folks views as widely as possible, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around work from home being morally wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5OHFt8QyiU I was on a bicycle ride listening to this intervie…

> but I'm still trying to wrap my head around work from home being morally wrong. Are you? Have you tried seriously considering his position instead of watching 1 second sound bites OBVIOUSLY taken out of context? > I was on a bicycle ride listening to this interview when he said it and I literally pulled my bike over and sat for a half hour or so thinking about what I think about the idea Oh? This musk interview was…

[dead]

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#123

Post by quicklime »

LapsangGuzzler wrote: post #20
neom wrote: post #13

I still think out of all the...unique... things Elon has said... work from home is morally wrong has to take the cake. I try to spend time looking at things as radically as I can. I think it's helpful to accept folks views as widely as possible, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around work from home being morally wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5OHFt8QyiU I was on a bicycle ride listening to this intervie…

Pure speculation, but my guess is that he’s invested in the commercial real estate market and hoping for a turnaround. I don’t think it’s some profound or insane ideology he has, I think he’s just trying to prop up CRE like he does with crypto. He’s famous for buying distressed commercial properties and for gaslighting, it just makes sense and the whole moral argument was a great way to get people talking about it.

But he's not the only business leader using heavy-handed techniques to get workers back in the office. I think it's likely that he genuinely believes that working from the office is better - he's not playing 4d chess.

The morality argument is just him rationalizing what he already believes. This isn't the "first principles" thinking that he demands from others.

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#124

Post by campbel »

kryogen1c wrote: post #108
neom wrote: post #13

I still think out of all the...unique... things Elon has said... work from home is morally wrong has to take the cake. I try to spend time looking at things as radically as I can. I think it's helpful to accept folks views as widely as possible, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around work from home being morally wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5OHFt8QyiU I was on a bicycle ride listening to this intervie…

> but I'm still trying to wrap my head around work from home being morally wrong. Are you? Have you tried seriously considering his position instead of watching 1 second sound bites OBVIOUSLY taken out of context? > I was on a bicycle ride listening to this interview when he said it and I literally pulled my bike over and sat for a half hour or so thinking about what I think about the idea Oh? This musk interview was…

> It is not some extreme, radical position that shutting down your company by staging a strike because you _deserve_ to work from the comfort of your own home is morally tenuous.

Why? This is just a negotiation. Striking is one bargaining chip that labor has that they can play. Striking isn't morally tenuous.

> You can disagree, but acting like musk is a raving lunatic for sympathizing with minimum wage workers who bus to work is nothing short of supreme stupidity.

How is Musk sympathizing with minimum wage workers? Did the minimum wage workers ask for the "laptop class" to comeback to the office? Do they even care? What about people in other lines of work where remote isn't an option? Do they care? It seems more likely that Musk is just using this false comparison as a way to pit labor classes against each other.

> Honestly the anti musk sentiment around here is so braindead and reactionary its beginning to feel like an astroturfed psyop.

Come on...

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#125

Post by [deleted] »

kryogen1c wrote: post #108
neom wrote: post #13

I still think out of all the...unique... things Elon has said... work from home is morally wrong has to take the cake. I try to spend time looking at things as radically as I can. I think it's helpful to accept folks views as widely as possible, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around work from home being morally wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5OHFt8QyiU I was on a bicycle ride listening to this intervie…

> but I'm still trying to wrap my head around work from home being morally wrong. Are you? Have you tried seriously considering his position instead of watching 1 second sound bites OBVIOUSLY taken out of context? > I was on a bicycle ride listening to this interview when he said it and I literally pulled my bike over and sat for a half hour or so thinking about what I think about the idea Oh? This musk interview was…

[deleted]

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#126

Post by whitemary »

zaptheimpaler wrote: post #75
neom wrote: post #13

I still think out of all the...unique... things Elon has said... work from home is morally wrong has to take the cake. I try to spend time looking at things as radically as I can. I think it's helpful to accept folks views as widely as possible, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around work from home being morally wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5OHFt8QyiU I was on a bicycle ride listening to this intervie…

Taking the argument seriously is exactly what he wants - debating the position makes it a valid position. There is really no argument there, just self-interest. If its immoral to have more or different privileges than someone else, thats literally communism. He should give up all his wealth in that case.

>If its immoral to have more or different privileges than someone else, thats literally communism

This is not quite the Marxist definition of communism, but it is a lot closer than I would expect to find on HN. I am surprised.

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#127

Post by judge2020 »

neom wrote: post #13

I still think out of all the...unique... things Elon has said... work from home is morally wrong has to take the cake. I try to spend time looking at things as radically as I can. I think it's helpful to accept folks views as widely as possible, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around work from home being morally wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5OHFt8QyiU I was on a bicycle ride listening to this intervie…

Eh, the more mindshare these people think they have the more crazy they become. Pre-2018 Elon was more focused on the companies, although he still made mistakes (Taking TSLA private tweet, borderline self-dealing with the SolarCity acquisition). The cave rescue fiasco and how he was sleeping on the floor of the factory during the 2018 Model 3 Ramp[0] (which also supposedly had Tesla a month away from bankruptcy[0]) must have triggered something, perhaps he'd already done the hard work and wanted to celebrate by increasing his fame/clout and by eventually purchasing his favorite social media platform.

0: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/11/elon-musk-says-he-is-sleepin...

1: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/03/musk-tesla-was-about-a-month...

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#128

Post by jjnoakes »

Ancalagon wrote: post #112
lettergram wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a farm and work remotely. I'm awake 18 hrs a day, spend 6 with my family & 12 working -- 8 for tech job, 4 for farm. I do this 6 days a week. I'm insanely productive by most metrics (many many launched products, side gigs, work 1.5 jobs, etc). I schedule my day down to 15 min increments (though obviously, adjustments are always made). Remote work affords me that opportunity and I work as hard as anyone. It's f…

Your work ethic is very impressive, but what do you mean by 'legit work'? Are you implying remote work is not legitimate? I'm confused because you even state that you spend your days working remotely - are you are obviously very productive at it. Is that not legit work, and only the blue collar is legit?

Not the author of the comment, but it is pretty clear to me that they are saying you can work from home and coast, or you can work from home and be productive, and they suggest that everyone who works from home should do the latter.

I agree with them. To me it isn't about the color of one's collar or the location they work from. It is about being productive. Productive workers should have flexibility, where possible. Unproductive ones shouldn't.

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#129

Post by ghaff »

rossjudson wrote: post #99
neom wrote: post #13

I still think out of all the...unique... things Elon has said... work from home is morally wrong has to take the cake. I try to spend time looking at things as radically as I can. I think it's helpful to accept folks views as widely as possible, but I'm still trying to wrap my head around work from home being morally wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5OHFt8QyiU I was on a bicycle ride listening to this intervie…

Farhad Manjoo wrote: "Office Workers Don’t Hate the Office. They Hate the Commute." That's true for a decent number of people...but definitely not all. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/19/opinion/elon-musk-remote-... And another thing -- the "morally wrong" is remarkably selective. Musk is clearly saying that it's "morally wrong" for white collar workers to be remote while insisting that blue collar workers be fully p…

I think it's mostly true. Yes, people have gotten used to the flexibility and maybe their very particular setups at home. But, if people could walk 10 minutes to their office and people they knew would be there I'm pretty sure you'd see a lot less pushback--especially for coming in a few days a week.

Re: Amazon corporate workers plan walkout next week over return-to-office policies

#130

Post by pishpash »

taftster wrote: post #88
jgalt212 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I'm not even following this, "Unnatural" ... Work from Home - Throughout the ages of man, I would tend to believe that more work has been done at home than at any notion of modern workplace. Farming, milling, iron working, etc. have all historically been performed by small tradesmen working out of their homes. "Go to Joe's house if you want your horses shoed." Home School - Again, I would argue that far more children…

Parent is what might be called "well socialized".
Post reply on HN