Live data from Hacker News

A mental health crisis in science

nature.com

161–170 of 212 posts

Re: A mental health crisis in science

#161
post #48

There's toxic culture in a lot of fields and there's one common denominator. Can't wait for AI to take over every field it can and push out the corrupting factor - humans

Maybe this is the answer...when humans are no longer required for a field to move forward, prestige becomes meaningless and everything becomes a means toward self-fulfillment not competition

Re: A mental health crisis in science

#162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can the institutions be blamed for trying to stay afloat? Where is this money coming from to pay the scientists? A collective decision has to be made to keep science healthy in a meaningful and productive way. I think academia (through its ethos of critical approach and peer review) may be the single social structure that keeps some kind of sanity.

I don't know, can the admins stay afloat without making 200k+ per year? Maybe give some of that to us grad students

No you see those admins are important because they went to business school so they deserve to make more money than the peons they oversee

Re: A mental health crisis in science

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you rather be told you're not going to get a stable job as a researcher when you're 21 and first applying to grad school or at 28-35 when you're finally told you didn't get any interviews for a tenure track job?

Exactly. It's far better to get rejected early from the PhD track, for not being a high achiever, than to muddle through unable to secure a job. You would still be able to prove yourself in a masters degree.

Society needs way more than just a few "high achievers" ie people willing to work themselves to the death for vague rewards, doing science.

Re: A mental health crisis in science

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wages paid by grants in general have to match whatever the institutions 'standard' pay scales are. So it's the institutions deciding pay rates. At least in the U.S..

My wife is currently in the middle of a fight over this. Her salary is paid by a grant from an organization that has a minimum pay scale for postdocs. The university has its own standard pay scale for postdocs, which is about $20k/year lower. So far they've refused to budge. It's not even their money, there's just 4 layers of bureaucracy who have nothing better to do than ~enforce policy~ no matter the cost.

Of course they'd fight your wife. They don't want any history or evidence of potentially paying more under any circumstances.

Re: A mental health crisis in science

#165

Academia places unrealistic goals on brilliant people and pays them so meagerly that they have to often find other sources of income. On top of this, some of the advisors are outright unbearable with their demands and work expectations, the world seems bleak for even a motivated researcher. Amidst the scarcity of grants, measly pay, extremely competitive environment, uncertainties tied with job market, failures in ex…

Some advice for grad students who want to preserve their mental health: 1) Have an entirely separate life outside of academia. Do not mix the two, maintain a strict separation, and keep all academic relationships strictly professional. 2) Don't think of your advisor as anything other than an employer. They're not a father figure or a mentor or anything like that. You're just cheap labor, and don't forget it. 3) Don't…

My wife is a researcher and it's astounding to me how many people she works with ignore point 1. Almost everyone is dating other people in the same lab or at least the same institution.

As you can imagine some people do great with it but I'm also aware of some catastrophes.

I like to think that our relationship, where we're free to vent about our work but also talk about and enjoy lots of other things, helps to keep us both mentally healthy.

Re: A mental health crisis in science

#166
post #49

Academia places unrealistic goals on brilliant people and pays them so meagerly that they have to often find other sources of income. On top of this, some of the advisors are outright unbearable with their demands and work expectations, the world seems bleak for even a motivated researcher. Amidst the scarcity of grants, measly pay, extremely competitive environment, uncertainties tied with job market, failures in ex…

> Academia places unrealistic goals on brilliant people and pays them so meagerly that they have to often find other sources of income Early in my career, I considered (with an MS in Electrical Engineering, but with 4 years of professional programming experience) a switch into law. Big firms hire (or did in the past) people with tech degrees to do patent work and will pay a salary plus pay for law school. When I join…

> Big firms hire (or did in the past) people with tech degrees to do patent work and will pay a salary plus pay for law school.

I've never heard this before. What job title would you search for?

Re: A mental health crisis in science

#167
I've noticed that the smarter and more academic people in my life are more prone to anxiety and depression. I've often wondered if there is a cause behind that correlation or just a random coincidence amongst the people I know. I guess this could account for some of that.

Re: A mental health crisis in science

#168
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Academia places unrealistic goals on brilliant people and pays them so meagerly that they have to often find other sources of income Early in my career, I considered (with an MS in Electrical Engineering, but with 4 years of professional programming experience) a switch into law. Big firms hire (or did in the past) people with tech degrees to do patent work and will pay a salary plus pay for law school. When I join…

> Big firms hire (or did in the past) people with tech degrees to do patent work and will pay a salary plus pay for law school. I've never heard this before. What job title would you search for?

I'm not the parent poster, but I believe they are generally called patent agents

Re: A mental health crisis in science

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of what contributes to this is the "brainwashing" that takes place in PhD programs that discourages applicants from transitioning out of academia into "the industry". Academia has tons of extremely smart, hard-working individuals, most of whom would have excellent white collar careers with half the work and 2-10x the pay. There are a handful of academics who are truly built for working in academia and wouldn't b…

In my PhD program I don't see that at all, in fact our program recently paid for students to attend a multiple day seminar about how to get jobs outside academia. I'm not sure where you get that impression from

have you considered you might already be brainwashed

Re: A mental health crisis in science

#170

Academia places unrealistic goals on brilliant people and pays them so meagerly that they have to often find other sources of income. On top of this, some of the advisors are outright unbearable with their demands and work expectations, the world seems bleak for even a motivated researcher. Amidst the scarcity of grants, measly pay, extremely competitive environment, uncertainties tied with job market, failures in ex…

Part of what contributes to this is the "brainwashing" that takes place in PhD programs that discourages applicants from transitioning out of academia into "the industry". Academia has tons of extremely smart, hard-working individuals, most of whom would have excellent white collar careers with half the work and 2-10x the pay. There are a handful of academics who are truly built for working in academia and wouldn't b…

I really don't understand this mentality either. I left academia to work in a company where my job is still doing research and writing papers but I get paid more money. I even write grants! And I get treated way better by the system in place, I have private health insurance, I get a performance bonus, I even get a company paid ski week!

There's a regular story told in physics departments that if you leave you can't get back in. But in my experience, maybe people leave and don't want to go back.

Post reply on HN