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Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

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Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#681

Post by Gordonjcp »

dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #128
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #118

For the same reason devs lie about installing arch linux without any problem. When you are good at something, you don't realize how much you do anymore. This article is unrelated, but has a good explananation of the problem in one section : Why not tell people to simply use x https://bitecode.substack.com/p/why-not-tell-people-to-simpl...

This is different. If you learn enough about Linux, you can install Arch in 15-20minutes no problem. Especially since learning about Linux means reinstalling your OS many times until you finally learn how to keep it clean and rescue it from any situation. You are not going to be able to cook chicken in 3-4minutes per side like so many recipes claim. It's just not possible to have a good outside temperature and a good…

> Especially since learning about Linux means reinstalling your OS many times until you finally learn how to keep it clean and rescue it from any situation.

People bother to do that?

Just wipe, reinstall, and run your postinst scripts to restore everything you need.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#682

Post by Gordonjcp »

dagw wrote: post #271
eru wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Especially since learning about Linux means reinstalling your OS many times until you finally learn how to keep it clean and rescue it from any situation. Surely, you are dramatizing a bit here. Or are you assuming that everyone shares the same need to fiddle with everything?

Are you trying to actually learn Linux or just how to use Linux to get other work done. Learning how to use Linux to get work done doesn't require a 'need to fiddle' as you put it, but you're not going to really learn actual Linux (as in how the kernel and core operating system works and hangs together) without getting your hands dirty and breaking a lot of things along the way.

Yes, but do you actually need to know that? I know that, I've been using Linux since the whole thing fitted on four 1.44MB floppies. I don't *care* though, and if my machine is fatally screwed up I just bust out the latest Ubuntu LTS, flatten, and reinstall.

I haven't got time to muck about with rescuing a broken system. I've got stuff to do.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#683

Post by SamBam »

JohnFen wrote: post #675
jacurtis wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The confusion comes in the color versus the process. I've seen some recipes call for "cook down onions until translucent and caramel in color". This is the most accurate definition of what most recipes want when asking for caramelized onions. However the true use of the word "Caramelized Onions" are onions that have gone through the cooking process of caramelization. This process requires three things: sugar, heat, a…

So the lie isn't in the time they say it takes to carmelize onions, but in that they say the recipe calls for carmelized onions at all? That's even worse. And it begs the question: why are they lying about this?

They're not lying, they're just using the word in a more imprecise manner.

Recipe authors have probably been using the word "caramelize" to mean "soften and turn brown and sweet" for longer than food nerds have been nitpicking the exact definition of caramelize.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#684

Post by JohnFen »

SamBam wrote: post #683
JohnFen wrote: post #675

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the lie isn't in the time they say it takes to carmelize onions, but in that they say the recipe calls for carmelized onions at all? That's even worse. And it begs the question: why are they lying about this?

They're not lying, they're just using the word in a more imprecise manner. Recipe authors have probably been using the word "caramelize" to mean "soften and turn brown and sweet" for longer than food nerds have been nitpicking the exact definition of caramelize.

This irritates me (I know it's a silly thing to be irritated by). I'm far from a food nerd. I'm not a cook. I rely on following recipes to turn out decent dishes (I'm good at following recipes).

It would have been nice if someone had clued people like me in to their special definition of the word before now. I'd have saved a whole lot of time and frustration.

But now I'm presented with the other problem: when a recipe calls for caramelized onions, how am I supposed to know if they mean caramelized onions or "cook until translucent"?

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#685

Post by inferiorhuman »

ubercore wrote: post #427
inferiorhuman wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CIA has a huge blind spot for non-European food. Check out the Chinese Cooking Demystified youtube channel. They did a video on the CIA's laughably bad mapo tofu recipe. It was bad enough that simply following the instructions got their neighbors up in arms.

That book is way more useful for techniques than the recipes in it. I wouldn't dream of trying their mapo tofu!

Pretty much everything from the technique to the details were pretty far off the mark. It was pretty cringeworthy to watch.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#686

Post by skyyler »

lqet wrote: post #662
SamBam wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real issue is simply a vague use of the word "caramelize," not that they expect you to be at the stove a half-hour longer than they say. The vast majority of recipes that say "caramelize" simply mean "cook until softened and sweet." No, technically the onions won't be caramelized after 15 minutes, but very few recipes actually want you to caramelize the onions. Take an Italian pasta sauce. As an Italian who has c…

Luckily, in German, there are three completely different words for preparing onions in a pan: 1.) Anschwitzen, literally "sweating up", means putting them in a pan on low heat for around 10 minutes until they are translucent ("glasig", literally "glassy"). This is how to get a starter for many sauces, and is the standard way to prepare onions for many, many meals and sauces (e.g. a standard tomato sauce). They should…

In English we call these "sweated", "caramelised", and "frenched", respectively. I'm not sure why the phrase "sweat" doesn't get much use outside of pro kitchens, it's a useful term.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#687

Post by dagw »

Gordonjcp wrote: post #682
dagw wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you trying to actually learn Linux or just how to use Linux to get other work done. Learning how to use Linux to get work done doesn't require a 'need to fiddle' as you put it, but you're not going to really learn actual Linux (as in how the kernel and core operating system works and hangs together) without getting your hands dirty and breaking a lot of things along the way.

Yes, but do you actually need to know that? I know that, I've been using Linux since the whole thing fitted on four 1.44MB floppies. I don't *care* though, and if my machine is fatally screwed up I just bust out the latest Ubuntu LTS, flatten, and reinstall. I haven't got time to muck about with rescuing a broken system. I've got stuff to do.

Yes, but do you actually need to know that?

Do you actually need to know JavaScript? Or C? Or Japanese?

As I said, if Linux is just the OS you use to do something else, then no. If your job/hobby is to actually develop Linux or tools that tie very tightly to Linux and how Linux operates, then yes.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#688

Post by mrguyorama »

JohnFen wrote: post #684
SamBam wrote: post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not lying, they're just using the word in a more imprecise manner. Recipe authors have probably been using the word "caramelize" to mean "soften and turn brown and sweet" for longer than food nerds have been nitpicking the exact definition of caramelize.

This irritates me (I know it's a silly thing to be irritated by). I'm far from a food nerd. I'm not a cook. I rely on following recipes to turn out decent dishes (I'm good at following recipes). It would have been nice if someone had clued people like me in to their special definition of the word before now. I'd have saved a whole lot of time and frustration. But now I'm presented with the other problem: when a recip…

If you followed the recipe as written without overthinking it, you would have had translucent onions after ten minutes and a complete and tasty dish.

You aren't supposed to interpret a recipe. You are supposed to follow it. If you have enough skill, practice, or ability to order pizza, THEN is the right time to make decisions about whether this recipe actually needs REAL caramelized onions.

Recipes have been vague and don't make sense out of context for millennia.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#689

Post by frumper »

maccard wrote: post #448
walthamstow wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. We have our opinions. For me the cooking time starts when I enter the kitchen and finishes when I serve the meal. It's the time I spent cooking the meal. Your thinking is what enabled a generation of '20 minute meal' recipe books that actually take closer to 40 mins.

It's impossible to give an accurate estimate unless you're starting from the same place (and even then it's hard to give an accurate estimate when you're starting from the same place - how long does it take a pot of water to boil?) My parents are an absoulte disaster for organising their kitchen, they have a fridge that is absolutely _rammed_ full with no order whatsoever, and a single pantry cupboard that contains c…

Any reasonable estimate above 0 is more accurate than one that doesn't include prep time.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#690

Post by JohnFen »

mrguyorama wrote: post #688
JohnFen wrote: post #684

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This irritates me (I know it's a silly thing to be irritated by). I'm far from a food nerd. I'm not a cook. I rely on following recipes to turn out decent dishes (I'm good at following recipes). It would have been nice if someone had clued people like me in to their special definition of the word before now. I'd have saved a whole lot of time and frustration. But now I'm presented with the other problem: when a recip…

If you followed the recipe as written without overthinking it, you would have had translucent onions after ten minutes and a complete and tasty dish. You aren't supposed to interpret a recipe. You are supposed to follow it. If you have enough skill, practice, or ability to order pizza, THEN is the right time to make decisions about whether this recipe actually needs REAL caramelized onions. Recipes have been vague an…

I do follow the recipes without overthinking them, because I don't have the skill required to make judgement calls. But also, I know that any time a recipe gives is highly suspect, so don't judge if something is done based on times in recipes.

So when a recipe says to "carmelize onions", that's what I do. To do anything else is to deviate from what the recipe is plainly telling me.

> Recipes have been vague and don't make sense out of context for millennia.

True. But the fact that this is true means it's essentially impossible to follow a recipe without some degree of interpretation.

I'm just irritated that there was a secret definition to "carmelize onions" that nobody clued me in to.

All of this is meaningless in the grand scheme of things. I'll get over this minor irritation. :)

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