30% of All Rural Hospitals in the US Are at Risk of Closing [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: 30% of All Rural Hospitals in the US Are at Risk of Closing [pdf]

#61

Post by alex_lav » Tue, May 23, 2023, 7:17 PM UTC

explaininjs wrote: post #8

rqtwteye wrote: post #2

It’s really interesting how the US has managed to get a health system that’s extremely expensive, doesn’t cover everybody, is highly bureaucratic and complex, delivers below average outcomes and has overworked hospital staff. And somehow people defend this system because it works fine for the top few percent (especially the people in Congress) and people who have Medicare or VA.

Is there any country with a medical system that people don't complain about? For instance is there anyone in the world that would agree: "Gee, my healthcare is so cheap, it's surprising that it covers everything I want it to without me needing to go out of my way to justify my treatment options and I have so many medical professionals available to me at a moments notice!"

Complaining isn’t a bad thing, and shouldn’t be used as a proxy for efficacy. Citizens advocating for better care should always exist.

Re: 30% of All Rural Hospitals in the US Are at Risk of Closing [pdf]

#62

Post by notho » Tue, May 23, 2023, 7:17 PM UTC

bwb wrote: post #14

kevingadd wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but it's not as if all the people who live in these areas voted to shut down the hospitals. There's still a sizable portion of the electorate that wants good things and they get to suffer now. Not great.

It can be good as pain motivates, and hopefully they vote better or cause change vis different policies.

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Re: 30% of All Rural Hospitals in the US Are at Risk of Closing [pdf]

#63

Post by ethanbond » Tue, May 23, 2023, 7:18 PM UTC

sidr wrote: post #35

ethanbond wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NHS is one of the most beloved institutions on the planet AFAICT. Of course everyone would prefer if everything were better all the time, but complaints about the US system and clearly not on the same plane as those about UK’s.

It used to be. https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/press/press-releases/british-so...

Wow, the last few years are a shocking drop. In 2010, 70% reported "very or quite satisfied" and 18% "very or quite dissatisfied." 2010 - 2020 seemed to hover around 60-65% "very satisfied."

Re: 30% of All Rural Hospitals in the US Are at Risk of Closing [pdf]

#64

Post by vel0city » Tue, May 23, 2023, 7:18 PM UTC

searine wrote: post #23

rqtwteye wrote: post #2

It’s really interesting how the US has managed to get a health system that’s extremely expensive, doesn’t cover everybody, is highly bureaucratic and complex, delivers below average outcomes and has overworked hospital staff. And somehow people defend this system because it works fine for the top few percent (especially the people in Congress) and people who have Medicare or VA.

>It’s really interesting how the US has managed to get a health system that’s extremely expensive, doesn’t cover everybody, is highly bureaucratic and complex, delivers below average outcomes and has overworked hospital staff. Well, most of Europe' social welfare systems were wiped out by the end of 1945 and were then rebooted with forethought and precedent of what not to do. The US is an archaic hodgepodge of system…

Eh, most of the current designs in the US healthcare industry has its roots with the move to employer-sponsored healthcare in the 1940s (see: 1942 Stabilization Act and it's consequences). Private health insurance was barely a thing in the 1920's and pretty much didn't exist before then.

Re: 30% of All Rural Hospitals in the US Are at Risk of Closing [pdf]

#65

Post by ethanbond » Tue, May 23, 2023, 7:19 PM UTC

explaininjs wrote: post #40

ethanbond wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NHS is one of the most beloved institutions on the planet AFAICT. Of course everyone would prefer if everything were better all the time, but complaints about the US system and clearly not on the same plane as those about UK’s.

I see sentiments like this echoed quite a lot regarding the NHS, similar for Canada's: https://www.reddit.com/r/unpopularopinion/comments/upoamh/th...

/r/unpopularopinion seems like a great place to go for "what's the general attitude toward X"

Re: 30% of All Rural Hospitals in the US Are at Risk of Closing [pdf]

#66

Post by throwaway43642 » Tue, May 23, 2023, 7:19 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #6

I don't know how you can realistically look at this without thinking of the "I never thought leopards would eat MY face!!" meme. Politics matters. Voters in rural areas (generally, of course) have consistently voted against policies that would help support health care in these rural locations, such voting in politicians who are staunchly against Obamacare, who refuse any expansion or even adequate support for Medicai…

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Re: 30% of All Rural Hospitals in the US Are at Risk of Closing [pdf]

#67

Post by gs17 » Tue, May 23, 2023, 7:19 PM UTC

rqtwteye wrote: post #2

It’s really interesting how the US has managed to get a health system that’s extremely expensive, doesn’t cover everybody, is highly bureaucratic and complex, delivers below average outcomes and has overworked hospital staff. And somehow people defend this system because it works fine for the top few percent (especially the people in Congress) and people who have Medicare or VA.

My opinion of VA healthcare dropped a lot living next to a VA hospital. There were a lot of homeless nearby who seemed to be veterans who had come for the hospital.

Re: 30% of All Rural Hospitals in the US Are at Risk of Closing [pdf]

#68

Post by Eisenstein » Tue, May 23, 2023, 7:20 PM UTC

DevX101 wrote: post #44

One other factor triggering closures in the article: private equity companies have been on a buying spree for hospitals. The strategy is to buy the hospital, sell the land to a real estate co, and have the hospital pay exorbitant rates to lease the land. After they’ve extracted maximal value, the hospitals that can’t afford the lease are forced to close. Hospital execs get paid large bonuses for agreeing to deals lik…

> Hospital execs get paid large bonuses

By whom?

Re: 30% of All Rural Hospitals in the US Are at Risk of Closing [pdf]

#69

Post by mikem170 » Tue, May 23, 2023, 7:20 PM UTC

zokier wrote: post #41

mikem170 wrote: post #26

How much do we want to subsidize people who choose to live in less populated areas? This will probably come up with roads and utilities at some point, also. Did we build a lot of infrastructure in less dense areas during boom times, similar to how China was recently building, with little regard for the long term sustainability costs? One day some of those currently paved roads in the country may need to be allowed to…

> Perhaps the companies profiting from these activities should pay? This is how you get company towns, and they don't have exactly stellar history.

I wasn't thinking of normal towns with a variety of people, but instead something more like oil rigs, or Alaska oil fields, or some military bases, where pretty much only workers are present, and they rotate in and out on a schedule.

Farming for example has already become quite automated, not so many actual people are needed. Same for mining.

Should everyone who chooses to move to the middle of get a paved road and emergency room subsidized by others? Or just the people who are grandfathered in? Wouldn't it make more sense for these people to move if their needs are not being met, as so many already have?

Re: 30% of All Rural Hospitals in the US Are at Risk of Closing [pdf]

#70

Post by bombcar » Tue, May 23, 2023, 7:20 PM UTC

swader999 wrote: post #19

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #6

I don't know how you can realistically look at this without thinking of the "I never thought leopards would eat MY face!!" meme. Politics matters. Voters in rural areas (generally, of course) have consistently voted against policies that would help support health care in these rural locations, such voting in politicians who are staunchly against Obamacare, who refuse any expansion or even adequate support for Medicai…

Yet in Canada we have this same issue.

Canada did not vote for Obamacare, so they get what they deserve.

(Sarcasm, of course, every single problem in the USA comes neatly down on political lines and one side is perfectly good and the other objectively evil).