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Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

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Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#661

Post by onlypositive »

jacurtis wrote: post #601
SamBam wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real issue is simply a vague use of the word "caramelize," not that they expect you to be at the stove a half-hour longer than they say. The vast majority of recipes that say "caramelize" simply mean "cook until softened and sweet." No, technically the onions won't be caramelized after 15 minutes, but very few recipes actually want you to caramelize the onions. Take an Italian pasta sauce. As an Italian who has c…

The confusion comes in the color versus the process. I've seen some recipes call for "cook down onions until translucent and caramel in color". This is the most accurate definition of what most recipes want when asking for caramelized onions. However the true use of the word "Caramelized Onions" are onions that have gone through the cooking process of caramelization. This process requires three things: sugar, heat, a…

This sounds like the same problem as recipes that call for "browning the meat" which I tend to read as "sear the meat" because e.g. mince will brown up within seconds but the searing is what actually gives you the flavour.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#662

Post by lqet »

SamBam wrote: post #514
sanitycheck wrote: post #421

I've had this conversation with people many times, a consequence is that some of them have no idea what caramelised onions actually are - they think it's the state you get to after 10 mins. Thinly slice 10 onions, dump them in a big pot with some oil on a medium heat for 10-15 minutes stirring frequently. Then turn the heat down to low and cook for a further 45-60 mins, check on it and stir every 10 mins or so. When…

The real issue is simply a vague use of the word "caramelize," not that they expect you to be at the stove a half-hour longer than they say. The vast majority of recipes that say "caramelize" simply mean "cook until softened and sweet." No, technically the onions won't be caramelized after 15 minutes, but very few recipes actually want you to caramelize the onions. Take an Italian pasta sauce. As an Italian who has c…

Luckily, in German, there are three completely different words for preparing onions in a pan:

1.) Anschwitzen, literally "sweating up", means putting them in a pan on low heat for around 10 minutes until they are translucent ("glasig", literally "glassy"). This is how to get a starter for many sauces, and is the standard way to prepare onions for many, many meals and sauces (e.g. a standard tomato sauce). They should not turn brown, as this would for example ruin the color and flavor of white or light sauces - caramelized onions have a kind of "heavy" flavor.

2.) Karamelisieren, "caramelize", which is the meaning described in this article.

3.) Rösten, "roast", which means frying the onions with a bit a flour until they are crispy.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#663

Post by kwhitefoot »

sandgiant wrote: post #340
kwhitefoot wrote: post #329

Recipe collections are pointless anyway. The best cookery book I have is Process Cookery, a textbook for commercial cooks studying at vocational colleges in England. It tells exactly how to do things and has example recipes with flowcharts showing which parts of the process are unique and which parts are common to other recipes.

Sounds interesting! Do you have a link? I can't seem to find it anywhere. I've had decent success with "The Science of Good Cooking"[1]. [1] https://www.amazon.com/Science-Good-Cooking-Illustrated-Cook...

I just knew someone would ask and I'm embarrassed to say that I misremembered the title.

It's Professional Cookery: The Process Approach by Daniel R. Stevenson

Here's a link https://www.amazon.co.uk/Professional-Cookery-Approach-Danie...

It doesn't go into a lot of theoretical detail about food chemistry but it is an eminently practical and down to earth textbook for people who will cook for a living. No frills, no pictures.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#664

Post by mcnnowak »

fooblaster wrote: post #602
savanaly wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biggest thing for me is your #5. When I watch others cook I see a lot of downtime. 30 seconds here waiting for oil in pan to get hot, 30 seconds there chatting with me while their water boils, it adds up to minutes and minutes that could have been spent washing dishes and cleaning surfaces. For me the perfect cook is when the last thing comes off the heat it's the only dirty dish, I can plate it, wash the dish in the…

1. There is no "mis" for hello fresh recipes, literally everything is presented in a bag to you. There's often no measuring or any dependencies other than oil, salt, and pepper. 2. cleaning while you cook is not a time saver for producing the food, only a time saver when considering overall time in the kitchen. In my experience with meal kits over the last two years, the biggest time savers are nothing like what you…

As someone with limited counter space, cleaning while you cook is essential for saving time while cooking.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#666

Post by marssaxman »

Jtsummers wrote: post #641
bruckie wrote: post #110

Recipe writers are still lying about cooking time in 2023. I signed up for a Hello Fresh promo recently to get some new meal ideas, and it's making me feel like the slowest cook on the planet. I reliably exceed their stated prep and cooking times by 100-200%. Tonight's "40 minute" recipe took about 70 minutes, and that was with a family member helping out with some of the prep and cooking. I wonder if they collect an…

The biggest issue with their recipes is that they, to an extent, tell you to do things in the wrong order. Picking a random recent one we had there was a step to season the meat and then heat some oil and then cook the meat. Well, heating the oil (to the point you'd want to add the meat) can take a few minutes and should have started before you even got the meat out of the package. What you actually have to do with t…

This has been a long-standing gripe of mine when it comes to recipe syntax - by listing all the ingredients up front, recipes look like they should be parseable with a single pass, but in practice there are too many forward-references. I recently bought a cookbook for my child which has recipes written in a clear, procedural way, and the absence of gotchas is really refreshing: I wish this style would become standard.

https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Cookbook-Young-Chefs/dp/1492...

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#667

Post by QuercusMax »

jerf wrote: post #615
giraffe_lady wrote: post #566

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not the person you asked but I also am a very fast home cook due to professional cooking background. The job is the training in that kind of work. No one comes out of culinary school particularly fast and even most serious cooks don't go anyway. Cooks change restaurant often and every restaurant is a completely different set of foods and techniques. Training may teach you how to do something but doing it for hour…

Even just some deliberative practice for a home cook can make a big difference. I am absolutely, positively not in the professional league. I'd be drummed out of any professional kitchen in the first five minutes. But I'm also way faster, better, more able to recover and improvise than I was twenty years ago, because I deliberately tried to stretch my skills a bit. Not a lot. Just a bit every so often. Over 20+ years…

It's just like any other intricate physical skill that requires practice, like music or sports.

I've started seriously learning guitar / ukulele, and it's amazing what improvements you can get just spending a few minutes a day where you slow down, do drills (like practicing scales), and analyze what you're doing.

The first time I play a new, unfamiliar piece of music with any tricky bits it feels awful, and I hate it with every fiber of my being. I want to run away and give up on ever learning it. That's when I take a break and come back the next day - when it usually seems much more accessible after I've had time to process it.

The first time you practice cutting an onion the "right" way will feel really slow, annoying, and taxing to your brain. You'll want to do it the way you're used to, even if that's horrendously slow. Do this every day for a week or two and you'll be amazed that it just happens naturally without having to think about it.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#668

Post by giraffe_lady »

conductr wrote: post #619
giraffe_lady wrote: post #570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah that's a perfect example of how experience & technique can speed things up dramatically. Here watch ole JP do it in about 90 seconds even while slowing down to explain it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y5h1pDHhzs

That’s not what an average home cook can do regarding knife skills. These services and recipes should be written for their audiences which are likely typical home chefs that don’t handle knifes that well. I’ve been cooking 40 years and have certainly tried to use a knife that way and it always feels unsafe to me. Also, typically requires a very sharp set of knifes which I do keep but I don’t think the average house d…

It's not what an average professional cook can do either but it's still one useful reference on how long it takes to chop garlic. No one is going to follow a pasta recipe that says it takes three hours because they do shit like allocate 4 minutes per clove of garlic.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#669

Post by regulation_d »

mtizim wrote: post #613
sanitycheck wrote: post #421

I've had this conversation with people many times, a consequence is that some of them have no idea what caramelised onions actually are - they think it's the state you get to after 10 mins. Thinly slice 10 onions, dump them in a big pot with some oil on a medium heat for 10-15 minutes stirring frequently. Then turn the heat down to low and cook for a further 45-60 mins, check on it and stir every 10 mins or so. When…

You can really speed up the process by adding water at the beginning and essentially steaming the onions. https://youtu.be/rzL07v6w8AA?t=207

Lan Lam is great! Be sure to check out her out content as well!

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#670

Post by bombcar »

0xffff2 wrote: post #655
bombcar wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love the advertising on some of the crock pot or instant pot packets you can find in the store. It'll say like "ten minute prep time!" (ignoring the 4-8 hour cook time) or the instant pot one will say "ready in 5 minutes" when that means the pressure cooker will cook at high pressure for 5 minutes, but it can take 5-10 minutes to heat up to that point. Time is an illusion.

> "ten minute prep time!" (ignoring the 4-8 hour cook time) That's literally what "prep time" means though?

Sure; they're all technically legitimate, but they can be decieving.
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