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Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

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Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#601

Post by jacurtis »

SamBam wrote: post #514
sanitycheck wrote: post #421

I've had this conversation with people many times, a consequence is that some of them have no idea what caramelised onions actually are - they think it's the state you get to after 10 mins. Thinly slice 10 onions, dump them in a big pot with some oil on a medium heat for 10-15 minutes stirring frequently. Then turn the heat down to low and cook for a further 45-60 mins, check on it and stir every 10 mins or so. When…

The real issue is simply a vague use of the word "caramelize," not that they expect you to be at the stove a half-hour longer than they say. The vast majority of recipes that say "caramelize" simply mean "cook until softened and sweet." No, technically the onions won't be caramelized after 15 minutes, but very few recipes actually want you to caramelize the onions. Take an Italian pasta sauce. As an Italian who has c…

The confusion comes in the color versus the process. I've seen some recipes call for "cook down onions until translucent and caramel in color". This is the most accurate definition of what most recipes want when asking for caramelized onions.

However the true use of the word "Caramelized Onions" are onions that have gone through the cooking process of caramelization. This process requires three things: sugar, heat, and time. Just like making candy caramels, you are performing the same process to onions. This makes true caramelized onions actually sweet, with savory notes throughout.

Most recipes bastardize the word "Caramelize". They tell you to caramelize onions, when in reality you don't actually want caramelized onions (which in many cases would actually ruin the recipe), instead they want softened onions with browned to a light caramel color, which is a completely different thing.

This is like a recipe needing turkey but asking for chicken. Like sure, it will probably work, but it is clearly different and not entirely substitute.

French Onion soup is the most common use of real caramelized onions, which is sweet and savory soup. It could not be made with browned onions, that would ruin it. Coq-a-vin is another popular recipe that uses caramelized onions, which complements the prominent wine flavors of the dish into a sweet, savory, gamey (usually made with game hens), and earthy delight of a meal. The caramelized onions are what pull that dish together and critical part of the recipe. This meal takes a long time to cook, similar to a gourmet version of American potroast.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#602

Post by fooblaster »

savanaly wrote: post #575
balderdash wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t disagree that some of the recipe times are very optimistic, but watching friends cook gives me hives at how inefficient they are, handful of things to think about about that will massively speed up your cooking time: 1)read the recipe and spend a couple of min visualizing the steps, what you’ll need and writing out the timing and grouping chores. 2) do some mise en place[a] (buy $50 of small duralex glass bowls…

Biggest thing for me is your #5. When I watch others cook I see a lot of downtime. 30 seconds here waiting for oil in pan to get hot, 30 seconds there chatting with me while their water boils, it adds up to minutes and minutes that could have been spent washing dishes and cleaning surfaces. For me the perfect cook is when the last thing comes off the heat it's the only dirty dish, I can plate it, wash the dish in the…

1. There is no "mis" for hello fresh recipes, literally everything is presented in a bag to you. There's often no measuring or any dependencies other than oil, salt, and pepper.

2. cleaning while you cook is not a time saver for producing the food, only a time saver when considering overall time in the kitchen.

In my experience with meal kits over the last two years, the biggest time savers are nothing like what you said.

1. Meal kits try hard to not use multiple pans, as not all kitchens have that. Parallelize cooking where possible.

2. Parallelize chopping with cooking by getting some help.

3. Pre heat your oven before actively starting cooking in the kitchen, ie don't stand idle.

Even still the recipe times are incredibly optimistic.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#603

Post by samstave »

beedeebeedee wrote: post #551
escapedmoose wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I use The Joy of Cooking and virtually no other recipe source. It’s a giant book because in each section it describes the mechanics behind whatever the section is based on; e.g. the poultry chapter starts with 10 or so pages describing how to select a chicken depending on how it’ll be cooked, how to cut it apart, what different poultry terminology means, etc. It teaches you what it means to “braise” or “b…

I also use the Joy of Cooking and love it (as well as Mastering the Art of French Cooking). > On the other hand, I refuse to make recipes found on the internet. They work extremely rarely if you’re like me and don’t have a sense of “what the authors really mean when they say X.” What I do is look at about half a dozen recipes online when I am trying something new. I compare them and make my own recipe based on that.…

This is my favorite internet Chef (well famous chef on the internet now - hes accomplished, funny and cooks like my granda did -- He says "just make sure you measure EXACTLY" (as he puts in random amounts of shit and doesnt really measure a thing).

https://www.youtube.com/@ChefJeanPierre

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#604

Post by dekhn »

ilamont wrote: post #585

I have great respect for Mark Bittman and regularly turn to How to Cook Everything for its solid recipes, but sometimes he gets it spectacularly wrong. Case in point was his spatchcocked turkey recipe. Quoting the NYT Cooking App: In 2002, Mark Bittman published this revolutionary approach to roasting the Thanksgiving turkey, which allows you to cut the cooking time of the average turkey by about 75 percent while sti…

The best way to cook poultry (which does take longer than most estimates, I agree) is with a probe thermometer.

The real problem is maintaining a balance between fully cooking thick thighs, compared to the mostly-surface-area breast, even after spatchcocking.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#605

Post by mech987987 »

I think the simple answer is that there is a disconnect between what caramelizing onions means for serious applications (i.e. french onion soup) and not-so-serious applications (your average philly cheesesteak or omelette). Just cook 'em down a bit on higher heat if your application is not so serious.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#606

Post by downut »

astura wrote: post #535
downut wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah that works on my Viking stove with my competent pans, and is basically how I do it, but people with shitty stoves, i.e. the majority, have burners with hot spots and/or mismatched pan widths or even too thin pan bottoms. I suspect that's where the constant stirring/too short time business might originate. I never realized how widespread this was until I brought dishes to group meals (as in Slow Food) and people…

Oh please, just stop! This elitism around caramelized onions is just absurd. I've caramelized onions on the shittiest of shitty electric stoves using the cheapest of cheap pans Walmart sells. It's not difficult and doesn't take any special equipment or skills - just time. Most people don't want that though most of the time. In 99.9% of applications fully caramelized onions simply aren't nearly as pleasant as onions t…

I disagree completely! There are preferences of course but for instance US Southwestern cuisine with the burnt flavors ("charred") appeal to a wide swath of people and the French AFAICT from a lot of visits can't stand it.

If you read Julia Child she is emphatic that onions should almost never be browned.

Guess what? I brown onions in my French recipes (rustic, eh?), and I char my peppers. I would submit that la comida de la gente is likely more plebian than fucking elitist French cuisine, no?

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#607

Post by marcosdumay »

mcv wrote: post #588
SamBam wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real issue is simply a vague use of the word "caramelize," not that they expect you to be at the stove a half-hour longer than they say. The vast majority of recipes that say "caramelize" simply mean "cook until softened and sweet." No, technically the onions won't be caramelized after 15 minutes, but very few recipes actually want you to caramelize the onions. Take an Italian pasta sauce. As an Italian who has c…

Exactly. I'm no cook, I'm barely an amateur cook, and I have absolutely no idea what "caramelized onions" means. Turned into caramel? I'm pretty sure you can get onions brown in 10 minutes, though. It probably won't be caramelized, it might be burned, but it's brown. I remember brown, dry onions. I'm sure caramelized ones are better. In fact, I think my wife once did something with onions that made them very sweet. I…

Yes, caramelized onions are sweet.

They are not "better" or "worse" than fried onions, they have a very different taste.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#609

Post by jerf »

jacurtis wrote: post #601
SamBam wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real issue is simply a vague use of the word "caramelize," not that they expect you to be at the stove a half-hour longer than they say. The vast majority of recipes that say "caramelize" simply mean "cook until softened and sweet." No, technically the onions won't be caramelized after 15 minutes, but very few recipes actually want you to caramelize the onions. Take an Italian pasta sauce. As an Italian who has c…

The confusion comes in the color versus the process. I've seen some recipes call for "cook down onions until translucent and caramel in color". This is the most accurate definition of what most recipes want when asking for caramelized onions. However the true use of the word "Caramelized Onions" are onions that have gone through the cooking process of caramelization. This process requires three things: sugar, heat, a…

Real French Onion dip, made with onions and not a prepared packet, is another nice dish with real carmelized onions. Alton Brown has a good recipe for the basic version: https://altonbrown.com/recipes/onion-dip-from-scratch/ Note he's honest about how long it takes ("Total Time: 2 hours", step 3 doesn't have a time estimate but it's about right overall).

It isn't haute cuisine, but for something you might serve for a Superbowl party it's at least pointing in that direction. It can stand up to taking a moment to savor and inhale it, moreso than most of the rest of what might be served up there. Pair with the bizarrely tasty Costco Kettle Krinkle Cut potato chips.

Re: Why do recipe writers lie about how long it takes to caramelize onions? (2012)

#610

Post by andrewflnr »

june_twenty wrote: post #418
jraph wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah ah, it's like an experienced developer committing code and releasing it without running / testing it first. It would not happen. Right? Right?

You're implying this does happen. Where does this happen? I've never experienced it.

I did have a guy, supposedly experienced, push some code to master that he had obviously not run because it still had obvious syntax errors. I can only assume there was a bit of a culture mismatch, but still, shall we say I was peeved.
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