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A mental health crisis in science

nature.com

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Re: A mental health crisis in science

#41

Post by _fat_santa »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #14
_fat_santa wrote: post #3

It seems like this is a symptom of a larger problem, rates of anxiety and depression have been going up in recent years in pretty much every facet. I always hear that social media is to blame, but I wonder if that is really the case? I feel like something else is going on, maybe it's just a totality of smaller issues rather than one big problem.

I’ve worked with groups of juniors and college students every year for a while now. I agree that something is going on, but I don’t think there is a single explanation. Social media is a big part of it, but from what I’ve seen it’s not in the way people usually describe it. The most unhappy people I see aren’t the ones talking to their friends on Instagram and Facebook during their lunch break. To be honest, those pe…

> To be honest, those people seem to be thriving socially simply by virtue of keeping up with their friends and coordinating social activities.

> The most unhappy people I see are the ones consuming hours of Reddit and Twitter every day.

I think you make a good distinction here. We always seems to lump "social media" into one big blob when talking about it but like you said I think there is some nuance here. I see Reddit/Twitter as a different kind of social media than Facebook/Instagram. On Instagram/FB it's all about the "real you", I have an account with my name on it and photos of me. Reddit (and to a lesser degree Twitter) on the other hand is all about being anonymous and interacting with strangers (as opposed to your friends) on the internet.

There's a time and place for both types of interactions but I feel like the "anonymous stranger internet" is what's really driving most of the negatives we see in social media.

Re: A mental health crisis in science

#42

Post by abhayhegde »

Academia places unrealistic goals on brilliant people and pays them so meagerly that they have to often find other sources of income. On top of this, some of the advisors are outright unbearable with their demands and work expectations, the world seems bleak for even a motivated researcher. Amidst the scarcity of grants, measly pay, extremely competitive environment, uncertainties tied with job market, failures in experimental methods, intractable theoretical adventures, publish-or-perish culture, and the better alternatives available for someone with a skill-set enough to pursue grad school, it's hardly any surprise grad students have mental health issues.

Re: A mental health crisis in science

#43

Post by [deleted] »

oaiey wrote: post #13

What I found interesting of this article is that most of it is also applicable to a many tech sector jobs. High pressure to deliver something (because we squeeze the last of people), hire-and-fire practices everywhere, politics and toxic environments (because that is what people do and what is the current social perspective on what is okay). Developers, like scientists, are very outcome driven (number of lines, numbe…

[deleted]

Re: A mental health crisis in science

#44

Post by commandlinefan »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #14
_fat_santa wrote: post #3

It seems like this is a symptom of a larger problem, rates of anxiety and depression have been going up in recent years in pretty much every facet. I always hear that social media is to blame, but I wonder if that is really the case? I feel like something else is going on, maybe it's just a totality of smaller issues rather than one big problem.

I’ve worked with groups of juniors and college students every year for a while now. I agree that something is going on, but I don’t think there is a single explanation. Social media is a big part of it, but from what I’ve seen it’s not in the way people usually describe it. The most unhappy people I see aren’t the ones talking to their friends on Instagram and Facebook during their lunch break. To be honest, those pe…

I don't know - I have two kids, one 17 and one 19. The 19-year-old graduated valedictorian from his high school of 700 last year, did extracurriculars and scored in the 99th percentile on the SAT... and was still rejected by the "top" colleges he applied to (Stanford, MIT). The 17-year-old got a B this year, and she's devastated - if getting everything nearly perfect isn't enough, what hope does everybody else have? It wasn't like this when I was a teenager in the 80's.

Re: A mental health crisis in science

#45

Post by shusaku »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #14
_fat_santa wrote: post #3

It seems like this is a symptom of a larger problem, rates of anxiety and depression have been going up in recent years in pretty much every facet. I always hear that social media is to blame, but I wonder if that is really the case? I feel like something else is going on, maybe it's just a totality of smaller issues rather than one big problem.

I’ve worked with groups of juniors and college students every year for a while now. I agree that something is going on, but I don’t think there is a single explanation. Social media is a big part of it, but from what I’ve seen it’s not in the way people usually describe it. The most unhappy people I see aren’t the ones talking to their friends on Instagram and Facebook during their lunch break. To be honest, those pe…

> The most unhappy people I see are the ones consuming hours of Reddit and Twitter every day

Or god forbid Hacker News!

Re: A mental health crisis in science

#46

Post by bendango »

_fat_santa wrote: post #3

It seems like this is a symptom of a larger problem, rates of anxiety and depression have been going up in recent years in pretty much every facet. I always hear that social media is to blame, but I wonder if that is really the case? I feel like something else is going on, maybe it's just a totality of smaller issues rather than one big problem.

It’s not social media, it’s social awareness of the exploitation of youth to prop up elders who contribute nothing but marching orders that, conveniently, prop up elder investments.

It’s being mocked over the environment. All they get is tough love as a generation dies off leaving behind the worst ecological mess any dying generation has left behind.

It’s being swindled by one socialized loss to enable private gain after another; sports stadiums, healthcare… etc

It’s teen women watching bodily autonomy taken from them by a bunch of leches.

And, the worst part, it’s the apathetic public following orders. Feckless society afflicted by learned helplessness; all the white collar workers who can’t provide anything real for themselves. Imagine being on the hook to coddle that?

This culture is a joke of self absorbed primates who ramble in high minded praise of their intelligence. War is peace and exploitation by aristocrats is freedom.

Re: A mental health crisis in science

#47

Post by generic92034 »

grt_thr wrote: post #9

When I was a post grad I could make less than I would at McDonalds for work I was volontold to do. I did the smart thing and quit. When you select for people who don't do the smart thing and want to be exploited in exchange for prestige they get exploited.

True. But please consider the difference the social background of the people makes. If you are financially secure due to parents (or whatever) you can easily accept positions with a low payment and do your best to get into a promising tenure track.

So maybe it is only partly about exploitation, but also about applying a social filter.

Re: A mental health crisis in science

#49

Post by fatnoah »

abhayhegde wrote: post #42

Academia places unrealistic goals on brilliant people and pays them so meagerly that they have to often find other sources of income. On top of this, some of the advisors are outright unbearable with their demands and work expectations, the world seems bleak for even a motivated researcher. Amidst the scarcity of grants, measly pay, extremely competitive environment, uncertainties tied with job market, failures in ex…

> Academia places unrealistic goals on brilliant people and pays them so meagerly that they have to often find other sources of income

Early in my career, I considered (with an MS in Electrical Engineering, but with 4 years of professional programming experience) a switch into law. Big firms hire (or did in the past) people with tech degrees to do patent work and will pay a salary plus pay for law school.

When I joined the big firm, there were about 25 people in my role. I was the only with with an EE or CS degree/background, the only one without a PhD, and the only one with actual post-academic work experience. For me, it was a 10% pay cut before accounting for law school tuition, similar benefits, and an small increase in hours. For all of the PhDs, it was essentially a 100% raise, substantially less work, and superior benefits.

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