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Seattle Amazon workers plan walkout over return to office, layoffs

seattletimes.com

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Re: Seattle Amazon workers plan walkout over return to office, layoffs

#101

Post by davidw »

charcircuit wrote: post #41
chadcmulligan wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are so many people that stand to lose if a fully remote work force came to pass. Building management, HR, middle managers, property investors, they're the ones you're hearing I'd guess. Pure software dev jobs are very easy to do remotely, it's not like we spend all day talking to people any way.

Software developers lose due to increased competition. Instead of competing with just silicon valley you are competing with the entire world.

This is already a thing, but it's also a good thing in many ways.

How many people were all excited about a "random" guy in a small town in Sicily creating a key-value database a few weeks back?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35871462

That's globalization, folks.

Re: Seattle Amazon workers plan walkout over return to office, layoffs

#102

Post by tessierashpool »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #95
chadcmulligan wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are so many people that stand to lose if a fully remote work force came to pass. Building management, HR, middle managers, property investors, they're the ones you're hearing I'd guess. Pure software dev jobs are very easy to do remotely, it's not like we spend all day talking to people any way.

Amazon has a reputation of being frugal to the point of stupidity (e.g. https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-employees-use-frupidi... ) so that tired conspiracy theory especially doesn't hold water for them. Amazon wouldn't give a hoot about the opinions of "building management, HR, middle managers", etc. if anyone there could make a solid business case that increasing WFH would significantly improve their bottom l…

do they rent any buildings?

Re: Seattle Amazon workers plan walkout over return to office, layoffs

#103

Post by sv123 »

Madmallard wrote: post #71
beoberha wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t true at all and paints a dangerously dystopian view of things. You could easily buy a home in Seattle or the neighboring area after 5 years of senior level employment at most publicly traded companies. It’s not going to be an amazing home and there certainly will be some sticker shock when comparing that price tag to most other cities, but it’s totally feasible. The idea that you need to have a “top positi…

5 years at senior level means 8 plus years in industry and you actually have to be promoted to seniority and it has to be at a company that actually pays well. It is far beyond reasonable considering the value that developers provide. So yeah, I think you're completely wrong.

If all Amazon engineers made a salary in their first year which enabled them to afford a Seattle home purchase, then home prices would rise even higher... Until you need to work for 8 years to afford one again.

Re: Seattle Amazon workers plan walkout over return to office, layoffs

#104

Post by theK »

Madmallard wrote: post #71
beoberha wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t true at all and paints a dangerously dystopian view of things. You could easily buy a home in Seattle or the neighboring area after 5 years of senior level employment at most publicly traded companies. It’s not going to be an amazing home and there certainly will be some sticker shock when comparing that price tag to most other cities, but it’s totally feasible. The idea that you need to have a “top positi…

5 years at senior level means 8 plus years in industry and you actually have to be promoted to seniority and it has to be at a company that actually pays well. It is far beyond reasonable considering the value that developers provide. So yeah, I think you're completely wrong.

Funny how senior came to be "has worked three years". Isn't it?

Re: Seattle Amazon workers plan walkout over return to office, layoffs

#105

Post by tessierashpool »

dumpsterdiver wrote: post #43
btbuildem wrote: post #18

Wow, the pro-corp tone in some of the comments is surprising. Software jobs are one of the few remaining ones where we still hold the means of production -- and can withhold them to our leverage. These folks are walking out for the right reasons -- big f-off to RTO, and even if a bit late, the layoffs.

> Software jobs are one of the few remaining ones where we still hold the means of production Typical software jobs absolutely do not "hold the means of production". The aforementioned "means of production" likely includes years of work from an entire sales team in order to land paying customers in the first place. What good are the "means of production" when no one is buying your product? Cool, you built a useful pi…

Typical software jobs absolutely do not "hold the means of production".

The aforementioned "means of production" likely includes years of work from an entire sales team in order to land paying customers in the first place.

that's the means of sales.

Re: Seattle Amazon workers plan walkout over return to office, layoffs

#106

Post by the_only_law »

nitinreddy88 wrote: post #100
btbuildem wrote: post #18

Wow, the pro-corp tone in some of the comments is surprising. Software jobs are one of the few remaining ones where we still hold the means of production -- and can withhold them to our leverage. These folks are walking out for the right reasons -- big f-off to RTO, and even if a bit late, the layoffs.

What many of you are missing is, its gonna hurt US in the long run. 1. If US people wouldnt want to RTO, these jobs will be moved out to India. You can get to hire 3 people for same pay and they are happy to work. Or you can definitely hire pretty good engineer with half cost and same output 2. Unlike labour work, you are not competing with local people or can benefit from unions. You are competing with world and the…

> these jobs will be moved out to India.

You mean just like the other thousand times people said this over the decades?

Re: Seattle Amazon workers plan walkout over return to office, layoffs

#107

Post by idlewords »

pretendgeneer wrote: post #79
idlewords wrote: post #13

The danger of any walkout is that you won't be allowed to walk back in. The time for useful collective action was back when tech companies couldn't hire fast enough, and tech employees enjoyed unusual leverage. After 27,000 layoffs, a performative walkout without a defined goal is just making it easier for Amazon management as they plan the next round of cuts.

Funny how now is never the right time. It's always just gone or some time soon .

There was a multi-year effort beginning with Trump's election to organize tech workers, and one of the key arguments was that there was a short window of opportunity in which to act, before some combination of automation and changes to the workforce removed the unique leverage tech workers enjoyed. The message was "now is the right time" for maybe three years, and now that ship has sailed. All we're left with is easy message board cynicism.

Re: Seattle Amazon workers plan walkout over return to office, layoffs

#108

Post by nequo »

emilsedgh wrote: post #86
dijit wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely that's a good thing though, if we're preaching meritocracy? Practically speaking it's not so different than how it is currently though (except maybe lower CoL areas in the same country), it's very difficult to have FTE's in foreign countries, I am in a position to feel this very much right now- either you have to do very complex accounting, become a multi-national or they have to be hired as contractors. There…

Its not about meritocracy. Its about compensation.

Ironically, limiting access to high-compensation jobs by tying them to cities like SF that don’t have enough housing may harm even those who do get employed in SF because their cost of living is high and the economy overall is possibly a double-digit percentage smaller:

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2693282

Re: Seattle Amazon workers plan walkout over return to office, layoffs

#109

Post by btheshoe »

coin wrote: post #15
mbgerring wrote: post #10

This is long overdue. It is well past time for tech workers to organize and demand a larger share of the billions in wealth we’ve generated for the VCs and CEOs.

Getting FAANG salary isn’t enough?

the nba player's association has secured nba players a nice share of revenue. seems to me like engineers could do something similar.

Re: Seattle Amazon workers plan walkout over return to office, layoffs

#110

Post by epicureanideal »

nitinreddy88 wrote: post #100
btbuildem wrote: post #18

Wow, the pro-corp tone in some of the comments is surprising. Software jobs are one of the few remaining ones where we still hold the means of production -- and can withhold them to our leverage. These folks are walking out for the right reasons -- big f-off to RTO, and even if a bit late, the layoffs.

What many of you are missing is, its gonna hurt US in the long run. 1. If US people wouldnt want to RTO, these jobs will be moved out to India. You can get to hire 3 people for same pay and they are happy to work. Or you can definitely hire pretty good engineer with half cost and same output 2. Unlike labour work, you are not competing with local people or can benefit from unions. You are competing with world and the…

Good engineers seem to cost quite a lot everywhere. I have yet to see the mythical $10 per hour amazing engineer from overseas, although I’ve seen several amazing but expensive engineers from overseas. I think the era of wage arbitrage is over. This myth is perhaps perpetuated to scare the talent over here into accepting worse conditions.

Any small gains they can make through arbitrage are eaten by time zone issues, communication issues, legal issues, etc when working across huge distances.

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