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RWKV: Reinventing RNNs for the Transformer Era

arxiv.org

41–50 of 176 posts

Re: RWKV: Reinventing RNNs for the Transformer Era

#41
post #9
post #7

Jesus H. Christ, first time I see a collaboration this big on a ML paper. How does a team like that even come together? This isn't the LHC.

I think it's just, everyone in their discord channel.

Our discord servers (a primary one, a spin-off for RWKV, another spinoff for BioML, etc) have tens of thousands of people between them :) So not quite everyone. But this was a community effort with a public call for contributions

Re: RWKV: Reinventing RNNs for the Transformer Era

#42
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What channel? I have an application for sequence models I think might be novel, and I'd like to be able to get credit and help research it if possible. Probably somebody has already done it, but I cannot search well enough to find related literature.

Write it and submit it yourself. Sole authorship is given more weight these days for whatever reason. In a multi author publication, even if you are first author or listed as equal contribution, if there is a more famous person on the paper everyone will assume they did it.

Write it and submit it to who? I'm not familiar enough with the field to find any prior work or related work.

Re: RWKV: Reinventing RNNs for the Transformer Era

#43

One thing I'm keen to understand is: how well does attention hold across huge context sizes, with respect to the usual transformer models, and also these proposed RNN models? All these 2k/4k/8k context sizes that we've had recently are able to map pretty well to what a human could reasonably remember. What I mean is, you could ask a human to read some text with 8k tokens, and for the most part they could answer quest…

I'll give a very simplistic answer to your question and skirt some detail. Essentially, Transformers can 'look at' everything within the context with perfect fidelity (only one 'hop' between tokens to 'get the info'), while RNNs struggle with this because the information gets 'muddied' with all of the tokens in between. Like telephone between you and one friend (transformer) vs you and a sea of people (RNN).

Hopefully this gets the point across without the mathematics and a precise description.

Re: RWKV: Reinventing RNNs for the Transformer Era

#44
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The paper says it's comparable to transformers right now but that means that it might be better later. Do you guys have concrete plans to make it better? Are they secret? Also, what's the deal with that foundation? Is it a cult or like the new OpenAI that will turn closed or maybe it's to reap the value of random contributors to the project?

Completely the opposite. - it is NOT backed directly or owned by any VC funded company - it is 100% OSS driven by the community (Apache 2 license) - it’s currently the top OSS chat model that can be used commercially on the chatbot arena score board - IMO it is undertrained, so expanding the training data alone will make it much better (however for the sake of this paper, we wanted to focus on architecture not traini…

Can beginners without money with by PhDs, contribute? If so what would be the best way to start?

Re: RWKV: Reinventing RNNs for the Transformer Era

#45

Hi Everyone, I'm a regular involved with the RWKV community. AMA, on RWKV, and I will do my best to answer them here for the next hour (one at a time) PS: you can find our discord here : https://discord.gg/qt9egFA7ve

Do you think there could be a kind of universality principle at work here, where once you make a good enough architecture then the details don't matter so much compared to the model size and training flops and dataset size? In other words, maybe it wasn't a coincidence that your architecture worked about as well as the transformer architecture?

Re: RWKV: Reinventing RNNs for the Transformer Era

#47

One thing I'm keen to understand is: how well does attention hold across huge context sizes, with respect to the usual transformer models, and also these proposed RNN models? All these 2k/4k/8k context sizes that we've had recently are able to map pretty well to what a human could reasonably remember. What I mean is, you could ask a human to read some text with 8k tokens, and for the most part they could answer quest…

One of the biggest issue with incredibly large context sizes is the lack of training / dataset meant specifically to use such large context sizes.

And this apply to all models. So when a specific model now does badly even at 32k or 50k it’s hard to say if it’s an architecture design issue, or a dataset issue

Re: RWKV: Reinventing RNNs for the Transformer Era

#48

Dumb arxiv question (sorry); is it possible to see what journal a paper was actually submitted to, to help find the reviewed version when it comes out?

It's not required for arxiv authors to submit papers to journals. As far as I can tell "Language Models are Unsupervised Multitask Learners", (the GPT-2 paper) which has 9,786 citations, was never published in a journal.

Re: RWKV: Reinventing RNNs for the Transformer Era

#49
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Write it and submit it yourself. Sole authorship is given more weight these days for whatever reason. In a multi author publication, even if you are first author or listed as equal contribution, if there is a more famous person on the paper everyone will assume they did it.

Write it and submit it to who? I'm not familiar enough with the field to find any prior work or related work.

find the most closely related paper that you know of, even if it's not very close, and submit your idea to the same journal that published that other idea

Re: RWKV: Reinventing RNNs for the Transformer Era

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely the opposite. - it is NOT backed directly or owned by any VC funded company - it is 100% OSS driven by the community (Apache 2 license) - it’s currently the top OSS chat model that can be used commercially on the chatbot arena score board - IMO it is undertrained, so expanding the training data alone will make it much better (however for the sake of this paper, we wanted to focus on architecture not traini…

Can beginners without money with by PhDs, contribute? If so what would be the best way to start?

i would guess, go to their discord. also they put their github so you could fix a bug in their github.
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