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RWKV: Reinventing RNNs for the Transformer Era

arxiv.org

21–30 of 176 posts

Re: RWKV: Reinventing RNNs for the Transformer Era

#21
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's just, everyone in their discord channel.

What channel? I have an application for sequence models I think might be novel, and I'd like to be able to get credit and help research it if possible. Probably somebody has already done it, but I cannot search well enough to find related literature.

Write it and submit it yourself. Sole authorship is given more weight these days for whatever reason. In a multi author publication, even if you are first author or listed as equal contribution, if there is a more famous person on the paper everyone will assume they did it.

Re: RWKV: Reinventing RNNs for the Transformer Era

#24
I wrote a home-brew neural network around 2006, just to see what would happen. I'd read no papers on it, and just kind of made it up as I went along. The result was basically a cube of "neurons" which had stronger and weaker trigger points to their neighbors and would propagate "spark" to one or more neighbors based on the strength and direction of spark they got from their other neighbors. Each of the connections and weights had a "certainty" attached to it which would go up when the output was closer to the ideal and would go down when the output was garbage. When those certainty values hit zero, the weights for that neuron would be re-randomized. I quickly realized that the only thing this could really do was try to transform one 10x10 pixel bitmap into a different one. But it was fascinating that it actually seemed to "learn" patterns as they got baked in.

What would be called "attention" now, though, basically didn't exist in that system. Once you started training it on something new it lost everything.

For anyone wondering, it was written in Actionscript 3, and ridiculously, each neuron was bound to a display class that displayed as a semitransparent cube that lit up as the inputs propagated through them. A thoroughly ridiculous side project.

But other than scaling that from 1000 neurons to billions, I'm curious what has changed about the concepts of pathing or tolerance to make these models better? Maybe my concept of the principle behind modern LLMs is too archaic or rooted in a cartoon understanding of our own wetware that I tried to reproduce.

[edit: I'm describing an ancient home project... for anyone downvoting this, I'm more than receptive to hearing your reasons why it's stupid. I'm the first to admit it seems stupid!]

Re: RWKV: Reinventing RNNs for the Transformer Era

#25
post #22

Alas, it doesn't appear to work well for longer contexts: https://twitter.com/arankomatsuzaki/status/16390003799784038... Has anyone here experimented with this recently to confirm?

one of the authors here!, I think someone in our discord did experiments to prove that it does work for longer contexts, The pace of this work moves really fast. This might have been an earlier models in the series. RWKV it needs to be trained for longer contexts lengths in order to obtain that skill a context tuning if you will. IRCC there will be a follow up paper for it.

Re: RWKV: Reinventing RNNs for the Transformer Era

#27
post #3

As a (mostly) layperson, this seems like it could be a very significant paper. What are the odds we see the next few years of machine learning models based on RWKV like we have seen with transformers since the attention is all you need paper?

Pretty high, we are going to be deploying something similar to Sono's GPT based LLM, and leverage RWKV for that, still playing around with it though!

Re: RWKV: Reinventing RNNs for the Transformer Era

#28

I wrote a home-brew neural network around 2006, just to see what would happen. I'd read no papers on it, and just kind of made it up as I went along. The result was basically a cube of "neurons" which had stronger and weaker trigger points to their neighbors and would propagate "spark" to one or more neighbors based on the strength and direction of spark they got from their other neighbors. Each of the connections an…

What determined whether it's output was "ideal" for the certainty measure to go off of? Backprop?

Re: RWKV: Reinventing RNNs for the Transformer Era

#29
post #7

Jesus H. Christ, first time I see a collaboration this big on a ML paper. How does a team like that even come together? This isn't the LHC.

RWKV has been running in public (relatively obscure to other models) for the past 2 years

Mostly lead by a single person (blink). This community consist mostly of people outside the academia / big VC tech scene

When eleutherAI offered to help us with writing the paper. Various key folks banded together for the paper, as it’s what seems to be a very strong alternative to transformers

This does not mean everyone in the discord was credited.

The requirements are for significant contributions to the paper. typically several paragraphs long worth of drafting and revisions

Just doing a line of grammar change or a single benchmark is not enough

Re: RWKV: Reinventing RNNs for the Transformer Era

#30
post #28

I wrote a home-brew neural network around 2006, just to see what would happen. I'd read no papers on it, and just kind of made it up as I went along. The result was basically a cube of "neurons" which had stronger and weaker trigger points to their neighbors and would propagate "spark" to one or more neighbors based on the strength and direction of spark they got from their other neighbors. Each of the connections an…

What determined whether it's output was "ideal" for the certainty measure to go off of? Backprop?

I'd need to go back and look at the code, but it was something primitive but similar to backprop. There was an evaluation routine that compared what lit up on the back of the cube to the desired output. The farther off it was, the more the certainty got docked from any of the [connected] neurons one layer up from the bad pixel, and that dragged down the certainties on the next layer and so on. It didn't have the ability to back check which neurons were involved in which specific output node. But I guess it was a scatter shot attempt at that.
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