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Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

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Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#201

Post by lastangryman »

oefrha wrote: post #156
lastangryman wrote: post #102

I find it surprising (in a good way) the author could be a programmer for 26 years at Apple. A lot of corporate places I've worked at are always pushing you to progress in to leadership positions; if you aren't moving upwards then you are "managed out" which I always find really sad, the idea that simply being good at your job is now no longer enough. Good on Apple if they don't follow this type of thinking.

In (one) theory, pressuring everyone to always move up results in everyone eventually stuck in a role they are not good at.

Yes, "everyone is eventually promoted to their highest level of incompetence" is how I've heard it and there's a definitely some truth in there I think...

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#202

Post by opk »

jossclimb wrote: post #73
rubicon33 wrote: post #52

> I am not sure though if this is still the case for software engineers. Are there younger engineers, new to the career, for whom programming is not merely a job but something they can imagine doing in their spare time? I think I met a few as I was winding down my career. I do feel though that back around 1988 or so when I started getting serious into programming that all fellow programmers I met were also doing it w…

This is largely the result of one thing; Money. The past few years have seen salaries climb to what could even be claimed as crazy levels, when compared to what other professionals make, esp non CS engineers. Compounded even more by the portrayal of the software dev lifestyle. Working from home, or being in an office with lots of free perks. This naturally led to lots of people wanting in. I like you, originally got…

Maybe salaries are crazy in Silicon Valley, but in Europe I really don't see this. I got a decent starting salary 25 years ago but having remained in a technical role I've never got more than minimal pay rises. I now earn way less than my contemporaries from University who went into other fields. And if I look around for job vacancies, they're never offering big money, certainly never close to 6 figures. Yet the perception in the wider public seems to be that CS professionals have loads of money even here.

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#203

Post by tnova »

pavlov wrote: post #160
shapefrog wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are special and unique, that is why we were chosen not them.

I'm guessing the same story was told 600 years ago in Spain: "My father, an Inquisitor himself, told me of the time when the Grand Inquisitor promoted him. Ordinary priests are a dime a dozen, the great man said, but it takes special skill to be an Inquisitor. And that's why you never let them go back to the pulpit when you do find a good one."

I’m not sure I follow the analogy here, are you implying technical leadership is committing heinous crimes against humanity?

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#204

Post by supriyo-biswas »

DanielHB wrote: post #185
iamflimflam1 wrote: post #171

I would recommend everyone who retires from programming to get into the maker world. 3D printed, embedded programming - it’s great fun and just feels different from the day to day programming grind.

don't do it as a profession, embedded programming grind is worse than conventional cloud/web programming grind

Would you say the same thing considering oncall responsibilities in conventional cloud/web programming?

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#205

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

DanielHB wrote: post #185
iamflimflam1 wrote: post #171

I would recommend everyone who retires from programming to get into the maker world. 3D printed, embedded programming - it’s great fun and just feels different from the day to day programming grind.

don't do it as a profession, embedded programming grind is worse than conventional cloud/web programming grind

Can't concur. As an embedded dev turned to web, the grind of the web dev was way stressier than the tasks as an embedded dev.

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#206

Post by scotty79 »

stavros wrote: post #196
Charlie_Black wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best engineers I know all started coding for fun too. Not to build "real-life" usable software, but to solve algorithmic puzzles.

My fun is building real-life usable software and seeing people getting value out of them, so I guess YMMV. I'm very lucky that I really like doing this, as it makes work as fun as my hobby, and my personal portfolio has a bunch of finished (if generally small) products in it.

I'm getting my kicks from finding out why things don't work and making them work.

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#207

Post by pluijzer »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #141
pluijzer wrote: post #137

After many years I'm still pasionate about programming, still do it in my spare time and enjoy my work. But, it really does need to be in a language and platform I enjoy. I also notice that if you have a job with a more niche language all your collegues will be passionate about the work too. This is why I personally do not care much about language comparisons. It might be that the language of my choice is only margin…

Niche languages filter for nerds, and nerds are more fun to work with? (if you are good at what you do, else you will incur the nerds’ wrath).

That can very well be ;)

I think those that choose to go into programming purely because it can earn well (I have nothing against this by the way) will choose to invest in one of the more popular languages because there are more job opportunities in it. Also there would be any, let's say, Common Lisp bootcamps so it is more likely that the people that know it have picked it up because of some passion.

When focusing on nice languages it is very easy to get hired for positions that need it because there is less competition. Though, contrary to what I would have expected usually it pays a little bit less. The highest paying jobs I had so far were in Java.

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#208

Post by Y_Y »

tnova wrote: post #203
pavlov wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing the same story was told 600 years ago in Spain: "My father, an Inquisitor himself, told me of the time when the Grand Inquisitor promoted him. Ordinary priests are a dime a dozen, the great man said, but it takes special skill to be an Inquisitor. And that's why you never let them go back to the pulpit when you do find a good one."

I’m not sure I follow the analogy here, are you implying technical leadership is committing heinous crimes against humanity?

Or cleansing Christendom of its heresy? Or showing in the wrong sketch, quite contrary to expectations.

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#209

Post by devnullbrain »

victor9000 wrote: post #172
kstenerud wrote: post #142

In 2 days time I'll mark my 27th year as a professional programmer (and just over 40 years since I started programming). I've worked in small companies, big companies, and mega-corporations. I've been a programmer, manager, team lead and CTO. And in doing so I discovered that I don't like managing people, I don't like meetings, and I don't like paperwork. I like long periods of focus. So I'm a software dev/architect…

I took the same path and came to the same realization, yet my current architect role is still nothing but meetings. Ugh.

Code is easy, people are hard.

Re: Same Stop: Life after 26 years as a programmer for Apple

#210

Post by asdfman123 »

totorovirus wrote: post #157

What I've seen in the past two years, a lot of people who have seemingly no fit to a life of a programmer have joined software industry. In my experience the best devs were the people who self-taught programming for pure joy of building a software, making a glimpse of imaging to something real through writing code. The others who were on this job because the compensation was hefty - they were likely to opt out to a m…

There is middle ground though. I love to code and am doing this job for that reason, but there’s a lot of other things I want to do while I’m alive, too.

When I’m done coding all day I want to do other things like exercise, climb mountains, learn instruments, etc. My motivation to do other things isn’t due to a lack of curiosity, but curiosity channeled into other activities.

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