Ozempic drug supresses desire to smoke, drink and more? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ozempic drug supresses desire to smoke, drink and more?

#461

Post by reaperman » Sun, May 21, 2023, 2:38 AM UTC

joedevon wrote: post #460

reaperman wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Peptides can't be patented. This is...mostly wrong. Like both normal wrong, and "x-y problem" wrong. There is definitely some truth in there, but the full explanation would require an actual lawyer, because there's a LOT of layers of complication. Just so people don't have to simply take my word against yours, here's Jacob Sherkow, JD, a professor of law and medicine at the Illinois College of Medicine on the topic…

I believe you. Look, I read a bunch of contradictory stuff on the internet about this and am close to a good number of people in healthcare who told me compound pharmacies are legit and that there's a lot of FUD on the internet. But I'm not pretending to be an expert in law or medicine. People need to research this and do what they feel comfortable with. That said, I'd personally prefer if the prices came down, the s…

To your point, there is a ton of gray area. One site I can responsibly link here is https://www.peptidesciences.com/ -- they're very careful about working to stay on the right side of the law, and they sell semaglutide and tirzepatide for ostensibly "not-for-human-consumption" (and at very, very high prices). So the raw ingredient, in non-medical settings, is not inherently impossible to import and sell legally. But I'm not fully convinced they're immune to lawsuits or legal action.

Re: Ozempic drug supresses desire to smoke, drink and more?

#462

Post by novok » Sun, May 21, 2023, 2:46 AM UTC

htag wrote: post #310

mym1990 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems pretty obvious that the massive injection of sugar in the 60s and 70s into diets paved the way for pretty much everything else that followed(snacks, fast food, convenient food, etc). I guess we can all ignore that diabetes is driven by insulin resistance and the body's inability to process glucose, which is conveniently also the predominant thing in our food today, because we would rather look the other way…

To pile on other popular theories on smoking guns, there is a widespread decrease in physical activity levels. Physical activity can delay or prevent type 2 diabetes, as well as having widespread benefits on almost every system of the body. Physical activity also improves mental health, which impacts some behaviors around emotional/addiction driven over eating.

We do more physical activity now than people did in the 70s and 80s and we are significantly fatter also. I doubt it's that.

Re: Ozempic drug supresses desire to smoke, drink and more?

#463

Post by valec » Sun, May 21, 2023, 4:38 AM UTC

36933 wrote: post #430

valec wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is not true at all. the dissociative effects only last a few hours. the clinical benefit is because ketamine stimulates neurogenesis in the mPFC and hippocampus, restoring plasticity lost in depressed patients. don't make unsubstantiated leaps :-)

Yes the immediate effects last for a few hours. I didn’t say otherwise. The current scientific literature paints a mixed picture of ketamine. While it can stimulate neurogenesis, there is a definite potential for neurotoxicity. Not to mention that there are no long term studies out there. There are countless people reporting being anhedonic after treatments. Only a few people have been reported to not relapse before…

That's not what your comment said at all though.

>Neurotoxicity

unclear. on the onehand, unpublished studies in gorillas show no lesions. on the other, retroactive studies of heavy polydrug abusers show lesions. not super high-quality evidence either way. there's also rat studies showing lesions, but rats are unusually sensitive to neurotoxicity from dissociatives. they get similar lesions from nitrous oxide while humans get no such thing. honestly the potential bladder toxicity is more concerning imo.

>relapse rate

still much better success rates than SSRIs.

not saying ketamine is perfect --- would be better to have a purpose-built drug, and a lot of the clinics are kind of scummy and charge exorbitant prices. but this + non-psychedelic 5ht2a plastinogens are the most promising things to come out of depression research in the past 45 years.

Re: Ozempic drug supresses desire to smoke, drink and more?

#464

Post by valec » Sun, May 21, 2023, 4:42 AM UTC

36933 wrote: post #456

CapstanRoller wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? We don't know of any cure for depression, but with ketamine we have an effective rapid treatment. Ketamine has a great therapeutic range, a well-understood side effect profile, and can bring a patient back from the brink of suicide in a matter of hours. It's also incredibly inexpensive to produce, on par with aspirin. Why shouldn't we use it?

That’s the thing. We don’t know a cure, but we know of people who were cured. We just don’t really know how or why, scientifically speaking. And as far as I know there was never someone getting cured from t1 diabetes. That’s what I meant by apples and oranges. Ketamine or suffering & death? Ketamine no question. I agree, but it’s not so black and white how you may perceive it. It might be ketamine or death for you, I…

your link is for PTSD, not depression. no studies have come out so far showing MDMA has any effectiveness in depression. the proposed mechanism for PTSD involves serotonin release leading to heightened extinction of fear memory in the hippocampus and amygdala. no reason to believe necessarily this will help with depression.

Re: Ozempic drug supresses desire to smoke, drink and more?

#465

Post by nebulousthree » Sun, May 21, 2023, 5:30 AM UTC

yieldcrv wrote: post #425

Earw0rm wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Find the right exercise/workout for you and it'll be its own reward. Shouldn't take more than a bit of caffeine to get you moving at that point. As to empath mode, you've just described MDMA. But it'd be nice if there were something a little less intense. That you could take weekly without frying your brain & was mild enough for family/work social situations. (And no, alcohol doesn't fit the bill).

> Find the right exercise/workout for you and it'll be its own reward. appreciate the perspective but I want to be like the people that feel pulled to "find" it at all.

The pleasure of working out only becomes obvious after you've built the habit to do so. You'll know you've built the habit when it starts to feel bad when you don't work out on a day you're normally supposed to. It's pretty similar to a drug addiction.

Re: Ozempic drug supresses desire to smoke, drink and more?

#466

Post by ChainOfFools » Sun, May 21, 2023, 5:43 AM UTC

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #387

0cVlTeIATBs wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know the conversation has strayed once you start debating epistemology.

This is the opposite of straying it’s actually a real conversation

What's that old quote, you're not getting somewhere until you're going nowhere

Re: Ozempic drug supresses desire to smoke, drink and more?

#467

Post by tremere » Sun, May 21, 2023, 7:19 AM UTC

mattpallissard wrote: post #256

tremere wrote: post #252

[flagged]

I'm a former alcoholic. I quit cold turkey years ago. Had a drug problem before that. Cold turkey as well. While I agree with you somewhat, I too don't like the narrative, I also realize that some people actually can't do that. Some people are faster, some smarter, some stronger, and some of us are better at sticking to a resolution. Everyone has things they're good at and things they struggle at despite the effort.…

I'm happy you've quit your former habits and I celebrate you.

Just so you know, the point of my post isn't to rip on people with low willpower or to brag about mine (which would be false valor anyway--there are reasons I had issues with alcohol and drugs to begin with). The thesis of my post is that the narrative is that you need a drug to get better.

Ozempic is supposed to be a treatment applied to people who are not yet overweight enough for bariatric surgery, yet it is being used ubiquitously. What does that tell you about the mind share differences between "you need a drug to get better" versus "you can just stop"?

The idea that another drug is your only way out is but a shadow on the wall of a cave, puppeteered by Big Pharma, people need to free themselves, escape outside and see the sun.

Additionally, my post was "flagged" which is a bit hilarious. I wonder what part of my post was hateful or otherwise below the standards of this forum. Unless you define hate as being critical of big pharma.

Re: Ozempic drug supresses desire to smoke, drink and more?

#468

Post by hammyhavoc » Sun, May 21, 2023, 10:31 AM UTC

rblatz wrote: post #304

jmpman wrote: post #151

I’ve been on Mounjaro since August. Down almost 60lbs, and it’s been a life changer. Have I had some gastrointestinal issues, sure, but expected. I feel great and my brain seems to be functioning as well as when I was in my 20’s. Now, when I go to the bar with friends, I end up having maybe 2 beers and although enjoyable, I don’t feel that light switch turning on which encourages me to drink more. Can I force myself…

I started taking it in November and I’m down 30 pounds and my retina has detached 2x for no apparent reason since then. My drinking is unchanged, except I get full sooner and drink slower. Because of the discomfort.

Wishing you excellent health, mate. That's rough.

Re: Ozempic drug supresses desire to smoke, drink and more?

#469

Post by epylar » Sun, May 21, 2023, 11:22 AM UTC

MagicMoonlight wrote: post #364

crazygringo wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's definitely always been my challenge with weight loss. I have zero problem with self control -- I can easily cut calories in half or less (e.g. 1000-1200 cal/day), but it's simply that my body suffers immensely. I lose all energy, can't concentrate on anything, and my immune system weakens so I start getting colds constantly. I'm sure I'd easily lose weight with Ozempic but I'd still be suffering health i…

That sounds like a convenient excuse not to change

This is not a moral issue.

Re: Ozempic drug supresses desire to smoke, drink and more?

#470

Post by 36933 » Sun, May 21, 2023, 12:47 PM UTC

valec wrote: post #464

36933 wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the thing. We don’t know a cure, but we know of people who were cured. We just don’t really know how or why, scientifically speaking. And as far as I know there was never someone getting cured from t1 diabetes. That’s what I meant by apples and oranges. Ketamine or suffering & death? Ketamine no question. I agree, but it’s not so black and white how you may perceive it. It might be ketamine or death for you, I…

your link is for PTSD, not depression. no studies have come out so far showing MDMA has any effectiveness in depression. the proposed mechanism for PTSD involves serotonin release leading to heightened extinction of fear memory in the hippocampus and amygdala. no reason to believe necessarily this will help with depression.

you sure there is no reason? MDD can be a subtype of PTSD.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4518698/