People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living • Hacker News Board

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#181

Post by dimal » Sat, May 20, 2023, 2:23 PM UTC

atchoo wrote: post #92

hiatus wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should people quote DFW as an authority given his suicide? A very good writer who committed suicide is probably a great person from whose experience we might learn, especially since they expressed what might be their internal anguish so eloquently.

He might only teach as a counter-example. He may be advocating for highly dysfunctional irrational thinking patterns that leads to suicide. They might be convincing, seductive and dangerous and should only be responsibly presented with clear context and challenge.

I don’t think he was advocating anything. I think that misses the point. He was just trying to state the matter in a form that would allow people to understand the suffering better and have empathy for those who are in that type of suffering. Personally, I think he nailed it, and for that I am thankful.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#182

Post by Retric » Sat, May 20, 2023, 2:24 PM UTC

denton-scratch wrote: post #169

throwawayadvsec wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first step would be to understand that rehab is not the solution to any kind of problem. Rehab is about making a lot of money, not healing people, they benefit from relapsing, they have zero incentive to help people.

Rehab helps about a quarter of the people it treats - provided you accept that they'll probably need multiple rounds of treatment. It's wicked to encourage the belief that a single round of rehab, followed by lots of willpower, is likely to solve problems.

Single rounds of rehab do sometimes work, and longer sessions have better changes. Willpower is part of it, but often completely changing one’s social circle is critical.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#183

Post by cshimmin » Sat, May 20, 2023, 2:25 PM UTC

cedws wrote: post #103

martindbp wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much easier said than done. I doubt you'll feel the same way when that old age approaches, just like teenagers who think life is practically over by 40.

>just like teenagers who think life is practically over by 40 Sorry but... it kind of is, no? You've probably got a family weighing you down so you can't travel anymore. You don't have the freedom to start new exciting ventures. You can't quit your sucky job because it supports your family. You go to parties that end at 9pm and your social gatherings consist of talking about traffic and grocery prices. You're probabl…

This hilariously proves OPs point. If satire, bravo, if not, well, we were all teenagers (or 22yos, in this case) once.

In any case: most new startup founders are over the age of forty. Assuming that's what a 22yo on hn considers an "exciting new venture".

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#184

Post by 2devnull » Sat, May 20, 2023, 2:26 PM UTC

atchoo wrote: post #92

hiatus wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should people quote DFW as an authority given his suicide? A very good writer who committed suicide is probably a great person from whose experience we might learn, especially since they expressed what might be their internal anguish so eloquently.

He might only teach as a counter-example. He may be advocating for highly dysfunctional irrational thinking patterns that leads to suicide. They might be convincing, seductive and dangerous and should only be responsibly presented with clear context and challenge.

I like the idea that DFW is such a good writer that his words cause death. That would be a great plot device.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#185

Post by cmehdy » Sat, May 20, 2023, 2:27 PM UTC

burningoof wrote: post #6

This is dark, but it’s interesting to me that the people who jump from a burning building and the people who end themselves on their own time are performing the same calculus. Nobody wants to die, but when your life starts to look like a burning building, sometimes the window doesn’t seem so bad.

I have generalized anxiety disorder along with the lifelong depression. My life has felt like a permanent "emergency mode" from the inside, and with how my body processes things. The funny consequence is that I've been at multiple points a helpful anchor for healthier people in actual emergency situations, from panic attacks to much scarier things. When the house is on fire I'm feeling most at peace as the world and my brain align (and I have a mental "muscle memory" to use), and I guide people fairly well right back to the gates of "being OK", but I let them pass through and stay behind.

This has helped in life or death situations a few times (including an actual building fire), as well as in professional work. Then the situation gets fixed and the world goes on as I return to illness. I'm glad there's at least some upsides to this whole thing.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#186

Post by s1artibartfast » Sat, May 20, 2023, 2:28 PM UTC

currymj wrote: post #172

s1artibartfast wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a typical overly cynical and overly online take. I think it would be dispelled by talking to or being friends with a single person that works in rehab

there are certain places where a lot of dubious, predatory drug rehab facilities have popped up in the last decade, since health insurance now has to pay for it, yet it's not quite regulated like other healthcare. if you see a lot of these it can make you very cynical.

I'm sure bad things happen, but to embrace all or nothing cynicism is to reject reality.

It is pathological in it's own right to paint the world with such broad and biased brushstrokes.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#187

Post by plandis » Sat, May 20, 2023, 2:28 PM UTC

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #30

This is something that I have had some personal experience with. I've known quite a few suicides, and survivors of the suicides of others. Very much a "walk a mile in a man's shoes" kind of thing. Everyone has opinions on the matter, until it hits them. Then, they have personal experience (not just an opinion). It sucks. In some cases, I can see why someone would want to end it all. In others, like this one[0], I fin…

> I personally know many people that were once far worse off than that gentleman, and are now doing quite well

This sounds extremely callous unless you were the dead man’s therapist or close personal friend. Surely you’re not going to infer you understand the situation from news articles.

> proven alternate solutions

Plenty of people seek help and yet still die of alcoholism despite trying to fix the addiction. There is no 100% guaranteed solution, and unless you are intimately familiar with the dead man’s life I really don’t understand how you can assume he didn’t try to get clean.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#188

Post by coldtea » Sat, May 20, 2023, 2:28 PM UTC

louwrentius wrote: post #177

coldtea wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would not want to see others suffer so that I won’t suffer their loss. The world being what it is, it's increasingly the opposite: others left or encouraged even to commit suicide (assisted or otherwise) so people dont have to help and support them. In Canada it's increasingly becoming a trend for poor people to commit assisted suicide, not because they have some incurable disease and pain, but because they can't…

The Canada example is not about suicide at all but about the impact of a society without a safety net. The issue isn’t the suicides, it’s almost a logical response to a situation that is objectively terrible without a possibility or getting better.

It's connected though, when assisted suicide there, is not just legal, but increasingly accepted, nornalized, or even encouraged as an invididual solution to not having a safety net.

So, the cause of the problem isn't the suicides - but they are offered (and used) as a way-out of it. This eases the burden on the state to do something to solve the root problem (why improve their condition, when they just off themselves and they wont be bothering us with their need for help anymore?).

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#189

Post by laratied » Sat, May 20, 2023, 2:29 PM UTC

cedws wrote: post #103

martindbp wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much easier said than done. I doubt you'll feel the same way when that old age approaches, just like teenagers who think life is practically over by 40.

>just like teenagers who think life is practically over by 40 Sorry but... it kind of is, no? You've probably got a family weighing you down so you can't travel anymore. You don't have the freedom to start new exciting ventures. You can't quit your sucky job because it supports your family. You go to parties that end at 9pm and your social gatherings consist of talking about traffic and grocery prices. You're probabl…

You will get a ton of denial about this but you aren't wrong.

On the other hand it is really easy to not get married and not have kids. Then the equation is quite different. 40s and 50s isn't all that different than 22. I would even say better in most ways.

Your vision of marriage is even kind of romantic still. The married guys I know it is more like depression because of separation and knowing the wife is fucking a Tinder guy while your kid is sleeping in the next room. They even know her date outfit because she posts the picture on social media.

I have two friends right now that this is their exact life. One of them I thought was the absolute perfect couple at 30. Women know their value and aren't going to waste their life with the flame having gone out.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#190

Post by ChuckNorris89 » Sat, May 20, 2023, 2:29 PM UTC

kayodelycaon wrote: post #60

candiddevmike wrote: post #23

Related, is it difficult all over the US to find mental health resources? Wait times for counselors and therapists are months+. Additionally, insurance seems to not cover mental health stuff well if at all, if you're lucky to get an appointment it seems you're paying out of pocket.

Yes. Last time, it took me 5 months to replace a psychiatrist. I had to wait almost a month to get on waiting list. There is no online sign up. It’s all by phone. Most of the time , you call and it goes to voice mail. You leave a message and never get called back. The few times I have gotten a person, most of them said they weren’t taking new patients. If you miss more than one appointment without calling the day bef…

I mean, your experience in the US is exactly like mine in European public care system looking for a psychiatrist or other more niche doctor: Multi month long waiting lists, doctors who are full and don't take any new patients, needing to go private out of pocket. Even the good private ones are booked weeks into the future.