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People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

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Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#171

Post by sgjohnson »

crossroadsguy wrote: post #153
theowaway44 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I'm getting older (mid 40s), I have a different view now than before. I've seen people die in real life, and it was horrific. Even in hospital beds with morphine drips. I don't want to die in agony, or slowly suffocating as many do. I'll end it before it goes too far. I think more people should actually go to hospitals and see how real people die, instead of the comforting movie version where the family is gathere…

I mean you need to be a citizen of a country where that is possible, right?

Oh yeah, because someone buying opiates to die a peaceful death would definitely care about purchasing illegal narcotics.

I’m pretty sure it’s possible in every single country in the world, perhaps except North Korea, but I doubt it. It might just be more difficult.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#172

Post by currymj »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #149
throwawayadvsec wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first step would be to understand that rehab is not the solution to any kind of problem. Rehab is about making a lot of money, not healing people, they benefit from relapsing, they have zero incentive to help people.

This is a typical overly cynical and overly online take. I think it would be dispelled by talking to or being friends with a single person that works in rehab

there are certain places where a lot of dubious, predatory drug rehab facilities have popped up in the last decade, since health insurance now has to pay for it, yet it's not quite regulated like other healthcare. if you see a lot of these it can make you very cynical.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#173

Post by clsec »

beebmam wrote: post #124
kashunstva wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As helpful as it can be in some respects to project oneself into a future time and circumstance, humans are often bad a predicting how they would decide on serious matters until they actually find themselves in that situation. This is particularly true in cases where quality of life is at issue.

Usually it's the family that makes decisions at that point in a hospital for a patient, and they often make horrendous, selfish decisions and prolong the patient's enormous suffering before death. Give people comfort care asap if they have a terminal illness, at the very least.

My mother told me over and over to pull the plug should she ever end up on life support. When I found out she was on life support after a heart attack I immediately assumed that it would be her brother's choice to pull the plug or not. Nope, that horrendous decision belongs to the kids, namely me. It was the hardest thing I've ever had to do but I understood and respected her wishes.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#175

Post by sgjohnson »

argiopetech wrote: post #136
cedws wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>just like teenagers who think life is practically over by 40 Sorry but... it kind of is, no? You've probably got a family weighing you down so you can't travel anymore. You don't have the freedom to start new exciting ventures. You can't quit your sucky job because it supports your family. You go to parties that end at 9pm and your social gatherings consist of talking about traffic and grocery prices. You're probabl…

If you've done it right, by 40 you have children. If you've raised them right, they're fun to be with. Even if you haven't, they require enough out of you that you want to go to bed by 9. Social gatherings are about spending time with other families and letting your children play. Your partner is a collaborative team member in a complex dance, and while the passion for that person is not as fiery as the lust-fueled e…

> If you've done it right, by 40 you have children.

It’s also perfectly okay to not have children.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#176

Post by attemptone »

Fricken wrote: post #19
attemptone wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keeping in line with the style of that comment: No, they're not.

Life is suffering. It's one of the 4 Noble truths of Buddhism. Ancient knowledge.

Another mystical text calls life the ultimate rohrschach test. You're not making (logical) arguments but rather you're showing your hand.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#177

Post by louwrentius »

coldtea wrote: post #125
louwrentius wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And often there is no other solution and I’m very happy that people in my country have a choice about this. I would not want to see others suffer so that I won’t suffer their loss.

> I would not want to see others suffer so that I won’t suffer their loss. The world being what it is, it's increasingly the opposite: others left or encouraged even to commit suicide (assisted or otherwise) so people dont have to help and support them. In Canada it's increasingly becoming a trend for poor people to commit assisted suicide, not because they have some incurable disease and pain, but because they can't…

The Canada example is not about suicide at all but about the impact of a society without a safety net. The issue isn’t the suicides, it’s almost a logical response to a situation that is objectively terrible without a possibility or getting better.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#178

Post by s1artibartfast »

kstenerud wrote: post #161
s1artibartfast wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is saying it's easy or that people are invalid here.

ChrisMarshallNY is sitting in judgment of the fellow in Holland who made use of the euthanasia laws there. Specifically: "I find it doubly tragic, as there are proven alternative solutions" (judgment) "I personally know many people that were once far worse off than that gentleman, and are now doing quite well" (justification that invalidates the man's suffering) "Lots of folks have opinions on it, but I have experien…

I don't find that to be overly invalidating or judgmental.

There is a difference between saying you think someone is/was wrong, and denying their humanity.

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#179

Post by inconceivable »

cedws wrote: post #103
martindbp wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much easier said than done. I doubt you'll feel the same way when that old age approaches, just like teenagers who think life is practically over by 40.

>just like teenagers who think life is practically over by 40 Sorry but... it kind of is, no? You've probably got a family weighing you down so you can't travel anymore. You don't have the freedom to start new exciting ventures. You can't quit your sucky job because it supports your family. You go to parties that end at 9pm and your social gatherings consist of talking about traffic and grocery prices. You're probabl…

i'm 40 and i live like a rich 16 year old with no adult supervision. peter pan syndrome is always an option.

anyway, here's your real problem. you might want to figure out which older people in your life are poisoning your mind with their bullshit. having a family, or not, can be great and is always your choice. miserable people end up that way because they're living someone else's dream, not their own.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

Psychological projection is a defence mechanism of alterity concerning "inside" content mistaken to be coming from the "outside"

Re: People who die by suicide want to stop suffering, not to stop living

#180

Post by wahnfrieden »

1/3 of Canadians support assisted suiciding homeless people or people who will lose their home. Canada finds death the most appropriate solution to suffering. Doctors and administrative staff are making the recommendation directly based on financial circumstance. It's a program the govt spends money on ad marketing and growth. Sounds more like a failure of the 'state and capital' flavor society to me than something to respect (which I have none for either, regardless of whether one of their policies at a point in time is a net utilitarian improvement or not).
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