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Apple’s new headset meets reality

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Re: Apple’s new headset meets reality

#511

Post by ok_dad »

crooked-v wrote: post #389
judge2020 wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing with locomotion is that you don't actually have infinite space to walk - if you did, or if a 99.9% perfect multi-directional treadmill was available, then it wouldn't be that big of a deal to just walk throughout the entire level. So developers have to offer some other way to navigate levels and mostly-open environments, that either being smooth locomotion (hold a joystick in the direction you want to walk/…

The better option, though it's very rarely offered, would be arm-swinging that moves you along in the direction you're looking like a cartoon character in an animation loop. Completely serious about that - you can look at the success of Gorilla Tag, where all motion is based on you pulling and pushing yourself around with your arms, and despite being a frenetic game with constant motion, motion-sickness issues are ni…

You can do this with the new PSVR2 Horizon game but I just use the sticks after I got used to the motion and don’t get sick now. That game already requires lots of arm motion for climbing though, so the arm wiggling animation stuff tired me out.

Re: Apple’s new headset meets reality

#512

Post by lostmsu »

chaostheory wrote: post #324
Turskarama wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The far bigger problem for VR is simply crispness of text and objects at a distance. High poly counts are relatively unimportant, there's a new Zelda game out with graphics that wouldn't have been amazing ten years ago doing pretty well that would probably run just fine on a quest.

You need a PPD of about 35 - 40 for reading comfortably. 50 is retina quality. Even with the Meta Quest Pro, it only gets to about 24. The same goes for the HP reverb g2. For $1999, the Varjo Aero PCVR headset comes at 35 PPD, but at that price it doesn’t include the $3000 -$4000 PC to run it or the $600 base stations and controllers. It’s also wired to the PC At $3000, i am guessing that the Apple headset will be 35…

> 50 is retina quality.

Something must be off here. My 4k 40″ screen at 30 inches distance gives 70 ppd. It works well for reading, but I don't think it fits "retina quality". Retina would be above 100.

BTW, half of that (35ppd) would be an uncomfortable 1080p on 40″. Which makes Quest Pro even worse.

The only thing I think might make it better is that unlike on static screens head motion could add a nice smoothing effect to the picture, which might potentially lower the required PPD.

Re: Apple’s new headset meets reality

#513

Post by astrange »

steve_adams_86 wrote: post #383
astrange wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's diet. Exercise only interventions are ineffective. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221226721... Anyway, the modern answer is Ozempic.

It seems exceedingly unlikely that Ozempic will compare positively to regular movement and a healthy diet in the longer term. Even our most prized pharmaceuticals seem like hacks compared to behaviour-based solutions.

It actually seems plausible since it has the side effect of stopping addictions and improving your self-control!

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2023/05/ozempic-a...

But I don't think behavior and diet are necessarily the cause; there's some room for gut bacteria (which control your behavior anyway) and environmental pollutants.

Re: Apple’s new headset meets reality

#514

Post by theshrike79 »

jnsie wrote: post #298
zamnos wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. $3,000 is obviously a luxury/niche product, but $450 Nreal Air (which is a product you can buy today off Amazon) much less so. It's like 3D TVs, the idea will never die. Even if it's doesn't work out time around (which I doubt, having spent a tiny bit of time with an Nreal Air), expect to see it again in 10 years or so.

Really curious about Nreal Air but would love to try before buying. Have you experienced them? If so, what's your take?

Don't own them myself, but there is a huge number of people using them with the Steam Deck.

You can get a huge screen in a portable form factor anywhere.

Re: Apple’s new headset meets reality

#515

Post by theshrike79 »

KaiserPro wrote: post #453
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #13

I don't think there is a consumer market for head mounted AR anymore - if there ever really was. That makes me sad having been in AR since 2010 - and knowing what we could do with it if done right. I just don't think society currently has an appetite for a $3000 product that gives the wearer visual superpowers (that is the promise after all) and is an impossible to ignore distinction between classes. I honestly think…

AR is currently impossible. Even with a 300watt power budget we just don't have the machine perception abilities to actually make it work properly.

But because this is Apple the glasses will most likely offload a good bit of processing to your iPhone - which has custom ML hardware.

Re: Apple’s new headset meets reality

#516

Post by evo_9 »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #13

I don't think there is a consumer market for head mounted AR anymore - if there ever really was. That makes me sad having been in AR since 2010 - and knowing what we could do with it if done right. I just don't think society currently has an appetite for a $3000 product that gives the wearer visual superpowers (that is the promise after all) and is an impossible to ignore distinction between classes. I honestly think…

There is a market for AR glasses, it's just not wireless or tethered to a smartphone, on your face, walking around and using them like that, at least right now.

I think the SpaceTop laptop[0] shows an excellent use case for a realistic AR device.

Right now, the kind of AR headsets that companies seem to think they can produce are all fantasy/sci-fi, not much different than the whole Dream of Self-Driving Cars. Sure, it's probably possible eventually, but not anytime soon, or at a price point most can afford in the case of self-contained AR headset that look like normal glasses

[0] https://www.bigtechwire.com/2023/05/19/spacetop-the-groundbr...

Re: Apple’s new headset meets reality

#517

Post by kbenson »

saagarjha wrote: post #440
kbenson wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, culture is different. Enjoying the people you work around is not culture, it's having good coworkers. You can have coworkers you don't like but a good culture, and coworkers you do like and a bad culture. Culture is distinct from enjoying who you deal with on a day to day basis. People mistake that all the time though. Culture does matter for this as well though, as enjoying your coworkers but not the culture may…

Early 20s engineer here. It’s nice to have a cool view out your window. I can and will trade it for better culture in a heartbeat. I can generally get better views than my employer can provide myself anyways.

Yes, I wasn't trying to say that someone at your age and position can't appreciate it, but that people learn more about themselves and what they actually value as they age and gain experience, so on average younger people will know themselves less than older people, so younger people are more likely (in my opinion) to think some things matter more to them than they actually do.

Re: Apple’s new headset meets reality

#518

Post by usernew »

saagarjha wrote: post #444
usernew wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The M1 chip can't run most software w/o virtualizing x86. I can't run about 90% of my work apps on it. It can't run any games kids play. Even the major vendors that run on Apple now had to rewrite their apps. In what world is this any kind of brilliance or win? Here, I built you a car with TVs for bumpers. It's brilliant! No, you're supposed to only drive it on side streets so there's no traffic behind you. You're dr…

> The M1 chip can't run most software w/o virtualizing x86. I can't run about 90% of my work apps on it. Unless your work apps are Docker, Docker, and more Docker, this is almost certainly false. Even then, it’s just slow, not broken. > There are many ARM CPUs out there, Apple made another one with some minor tweaks. If 2x single threaded performance is “minor tweaks”, sure. > For work, I get an 8-core xeon laptop w/…

I have a lot of docker. I have a lot of ESX images. I have a lot of vendor tools. There is not a single professional application I use for work, that runs on ARM, outside of office/email. On an M1, I'd have to use a gimped web interface, which on the vendor side isn't even available for a lot of tools. For the gamers out there (not me), almost no games my little brothers want to play run on ARM.

>If 2x single threaded performance the M1 is just an iphone chip on steroids, and the M1 design is indeed a minor tweak of the design by ARM. 2x compared to what? The cortex X3 or a bunch of cell phone CPUs? The M1 is indeed a minor tweak of a Phone processor, with bigger hardware to accommodate laptop/desktop use cases.

Other companies make CPUs that run what people want to run. Apple makes CPUs that don't run what people want to run, and expect the world to rewrite everything for their new toy. That's why MACs have almost no footprint in the real world compared to x86/64. Because my computer is a tool. I have some nails and need to buy a hammer. Apple gives me a screw driver and tells me I'm doing it wrong. It's a tool that can't do the job, so it's the wrong tool. Yes, there is a small niche where Apple is a good fit. That niche, is 7% of the market for laptops for example. Surprise - people don't want an expensive paperweight. They buy tools to solve their problems, not create new ones.

Re: Apple’s new headset meets reality

#519

Post by usernew »

sbuk wrote: post #380
usernew wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The M1 chip can't run most software w/o virtualizing x86. I can't run about 90% of my work apps on it. It can't run any games kids play. Even the major vendors that run on Apple now had to rewrite their apps. In what world is this any kind of brilliance or win? Here, I built you a car with TVs for bumpers. It's brilliant! No, you're supposed to only drive it on side streets so there's no traffic behind you. You're dr…

The 1990’s called, the want there memes back…

is thi's their, the want you want?

https://en.meming.world/images/en/f/f9/If_Those_Kids_Could_R...

Re: Apple’s new headset meets reality

#520

Post by anonymouse008 »

vineyardmike wrote: post #437
anonymouse008 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true - but let me say this, you couldn’t pay me to wear an Apple Watch all day and you won’t be able to pay me to wear a headset. There’s just no dang reason to use these things like their creators want. Someone needs to be brave in these organizations and say “hey look, we tried pushing Siri for years and never gained the loved adoption that chatGPT has, why are we trying the same strategy here?” If the comp…

> you couldn’t pay me to wear an Apple Watch all day > pushing Siri for years and never gained the loved adoption that chatGPT has, I say this politely, maybe you have bad taste? Lots of people voluntarily pay for an Apple Watch for the privilege of wearing it all day. When Apple released the HomePod mini it quickly grabbed market share against Alexa et al. Siri has been available on apple devices for years, and a hu…

Just because there are sales, doesn’t make it good business.

And I guess you’re right; the simplest argument with my taste is: VR/AR are technologies looking for solutions

* meaningful solutions. And maybe SOL and others are right that hands free readers are the most meaningful solution for these head worn devices.

[Apple Watch was always going to be fitness (everything before it was fitness). HomePod is amazing but not communicated correctly for people to know it’s there. Siri is horrid to deal with as a developer, tho dictation is amazing as an interface. There’s too much to talk about - basically Apple achieved the center of the digital life for all the devices Jobs put up on the screen in the 90s and now they need the new devices / activities and nothings been as universal as the past]

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