Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

youtube.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 320 posts

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#151

Post by ajuc »

kortex wrote: post #134
dchnshA wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cars aren't worse or better, they're just different. Cars are plain worse. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/co2-transport-mode > anti car bias on HN I more worry worried about the anti smashing your fingers with a hammer bias on HN > It's an empathy gap It is an infrastructure spending gap.

Even if towns had the infra money and political will (they usually don't), where's all this hypothetical infrastructure gonna go? Where I live, there's a main drag which is the ideal location for pedestrian infra, has all the shops, near the one (1) bus route we have. No sidewalks. No room to even put one in, without some massive eminent domain. Literally there are buildings in the way which would prevent any expansi…

I walk this road every weekend for fun. No pavements, yet I feel perfectly safe: https://www.google.pl/maps/@51.3167434,22.543053,3a,75y,89.3...

cars go on it like 30 km/h cause it's so narrow. No need for any infrastructure.

If the road is wide enough for cars to go faster - it's wide enough to fit pavement (one side at least). Pavement can be very narrow too - 1 m is infinitely better than no pavement. I've even seen 0.5 m pavements but that's stretching it :)

If the road is so narrow you can't fit pavement there - it's probably safe already.

But I've seen roads in USA and I think you just have no comparison on what "no space" means.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#152

Post by Gigachad »

hnuser847 wrote: post #2

I definitely felt this when walking through the city center of Florence last fall. The streets and piazzas were jammed with thousands of tourists but it felt remarkably quiet, due to the almost complete absence of cars.

The noise of actual people on the street is also quite pleasant. Talking, laughing, footsteps, etc. it positively adds to the atmosphere rather then detract from it.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#153

Post by throwaway049 »

david-gpu wrote: post #17

I live in a high-rise condo next to a six-lane stroad that was even showcased on this YouTube channel and the 24/7 traffic noise is annoying, particularly when you want to go for a walk and can't even hold a conversation. This didn't happen in the places where I lived back in Europe because zoning laws were different. Instead of the sprawl of freehold single family homes separate from a dense urban core, these much q…

Not very helpful to generalise about Europe in that way. It is a big place with a variety of zoning laws and plenty of examples of road, rail and air transport noise affecting homes.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#154

Post by bena »

Gwypaas wrote: post #93
robertlagrant wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This means people can live within walking distance to where they work and where they shop This is less common than you think. There are 8500 or so malls in Europe[0]. I happen to live near an (expensive) shop, which I use because I like walking places, but I also know I have a tech salary that lets me buy a place that's in walking distance of a shop, and afford to shop in it regularly. Also, plenty of people don't…

Why would I ever go to mall? It is an awful experience. At most, when it would be too cumbersome to bring on public transport, I rent a car.

Not a "shopping mall" mall, but an old-school open area with shops and restaurants. I don't know if you watch Ted Lasso, but Lasso and Beard live right next to a mall and frequently walk through it or meet up at a bench there.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#155

Post by darkteflon »

badpun wrote: post #82
darkteflon wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this take about Japan all the time and do not understand it. No offence, but have you spent any time in Japan? Rural areas might be quiet for sheer low population density, but the cities are disgusting. PM2.5 levels in Tokyo yesterday were like 6x WHO limits and absolutely no one on the local news was talking about it. Every morning I see pregnant and new mothers with infants or small children squeezing between…

> PM2.5 levels in Tokyo yesterday were like 6x WHO limits and absolutely no one on the local news was talking about it. According to [1], yesterday's peak of PM2.5 (not the 24 hour average) in Tokyo was at 22 µg/m3, whereas according to [2], the WHO's (extremely strict) limit for 24 hour average is set at 15 µg/m3. Where did you get your data from? [1] https://www.aqi.in/dashboard/Japan/tokyo [2] https://www.who.int/…

accuweather.com. Yesterday morning the AQI was 142. I snapped a photo of it.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#156

Post by Al-Khwarizmi »

phpisthebest wrote: post #76
david-gpu wrote: post #17

I live in a high-rise condo next to a six-lane stroad that was even showcased on this YouTube channel and the 24/7 traffic noise is annoying, particularly when you want to go for a walk and can't even hold a conversation. This didn't happen in the places where I lived back in Europe because zoning laws were different. Instead of the sprawl of freehold single family homes separate from a dense urban core, these much q…

>>This means people can live within walking distance to where they work and where they shop, so they do just that: walk through quiet streets, often surrounded with trees. it would take more than changing zoning laws for that, as I understand changing jobs and such is not as common in these locations as well. If you are changing jobs every couple of years having to find a home in the same neighborhood as your new job…

> Also I prefer not be limited in my shopping choices just to the single shop that happens to be in my building or on my block...

I live in a mid-sized European city, and I have literally dozens of shops within 10-minute walking distance of home, as well as several banks, primary and high school, health center, several playgrounds, parks, gyms, plenty of bars and restaurants, etc.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#157

Post by david-gpu »

darkteflon wrote: post #145
david-gpu wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> No offence, but have you spent any time in Japan? > As someone who moved to Japan it's always funny. I think people literally get their impression from Japan solely from neo-Tokyo sci-fi from the 80s. Yes, I have visited Japan several times, multiple cities. My wife is Japanese. But don't let that stop you. Please, continue.

Okay, well, more than 20 years living here and I reckon the air quality is terrible and that in 2023 it should be a much higher priority than it is. I have to raise my kids here. I’m sure the total absence of zero emissions vehicle options has absolutely nothing to do with the political influence of the Japanese automotive lobby.

Somebody else in the thread showed you actual objective data on air pollution and you brushed it off. In Japan a substantial majority of people commute by transit, mostly by rail. How would air pollution be affected if as many people commuted by car as they typically do in North America? Cars are the subject of this post.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#158

Post by globular-toast »

chrisldgk wrote: post #115
michaelteter wrote: post #84

There are two issues here. One is that we need to come up with comprehensive solutions for reducing the number of vehicles in use. But that’s a difficult problem where solutions take decades and must be tailored to each scenario. But what can be addressed now is the engine and exhaust sound levels. Some vehicles are loud because their engines are working hard, but many vehicles are loud because people (boys) want the…

I think you’re focusing on the wrong issue here. Engine noise nowadays is a lot less of a problem than tire noise, especially with cars going 50km/h+. Some cars are loud because people want them to be, most cars are loud because the noise the tires make when driving is loud, and that only gets worse the more cars you have around.

It's not that simple. Tyre noise produces a roughly "white noise" profile. This kind of noise is easy to attenuate using physical barriers and people can sleep with it (some people even sleep better with it).

It only takes one engine in a thousand to drown out everything else. They are specifically designed to produce a "note" and explosions which are highly irregular and impossible to not hear.

Loud engines should be repaired if possible and destroyed if not. But total road noise should also be taken into account and accounted for with increased vehicle tax.

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#159

Post by inconceivable »

darkteflon wrote: post #58
Grimburger wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but the cities are disgusting Which non-Japanese cities are you comparing it to here?

Take your pick. There’s no special magic to Japanese cities. They’re dominated by traffic and construction, full stop. The air is filthy.

[flagged]

Re: Cities Aren't Loud: Cars Are Loud (2021) [video]

#160

Post by ajuc »

kortex wrote: post #127
llm_nerd wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discussing a topic rationally and openly isn't a bias, and I've seen no evidence that HN has an anti-car bias particularly. We dedicate a huge amount of the public space to personal vehicles, and it is the sort of solution that basically creates its own problem, with the uptake of cars necessitating urban planning that make it necessary for an uptake in cars. Rinse and repeat. It should be possible to discuss this ra…

I think the blind spot and empath gap gp is referring to is the attitude of the anti-car crowd. I had this just yesterday in another thread. The attitude of many city folks toward suburbanites is basically "have you considered radically changing your lifestyle, abandoning most of your existing habits and hobbies, and petition your town to put in bike infra where zero room to do so exists?" They fail to realize that h…

> zero room to do so exists?

Can you show an example?

> abandoning most of your existing habits and hobbies

Why would you do that? The only hobby I know that requires a car is racing, and you have race tracks for that.

> city folks

What if it's not just city folk tho :)

Post reply on HN