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Legend of Zelda game sells 10M copies in three days

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Re: Legend of Zelda game sells 10M copies in three days

#431
post #242

Based on the complaints about framerate, pop-in, etc. I'm strongly reminded of Shadow of the Colossus (2005) which had these same issues on its original PS2 release. It was truly a seventh-gen game running on sixth-gen hardware, revolutionary for the time but the available hardware struggled to keep up. Looks like time is nearly up for the Switch. Awesome run, though.

I think the Switch form factor will remain, it just needs a chipset refresh. It clearly hit a sweet spot that would be silly to abandon, I would expect Nintendo to have learned that lesson with the Wii U.

I believe that it was going to get a chip refresh like a year and a half ago but they had to scrap it because of the chip shortage, so they just released the refreshed hardware as the OLED switch with the same chip.

No firm proof for this, just some rumors.

Re: Legend of Zelda game sells 10M copies in three days

#432

The marketing was insane as usual. Nintendo performed excellent. Multiple front page reddit posts, multiple 10/10 reviews from big name outlets. Nintendo rivals Apple as the best company in marketing. Nintendo has done some sort of mass psychology that allows them to have sub 30fps with no complaints, I was born too early to see this reviewed in business schools, but we are starting to see a bit of the innerworkings…

Nintendo didn't really need to do any marketing beyond "Hey we are releasing a new Zelda game, it will run on the Switch you bought years ago mostly in order to play the previous Zelda game". I've been playing games for 30+ years, at no point have I cared deeply about the difference between 30fps and 60fps. I do not like 5fps-stuttering, which happens sometimes in poorly optimised AAA games no matter how good (within…

I care about the difference between 30fps and 60fps, but only in certain games. If I'm playing a PC first-person shooter, I'm gonna want 60fps (or preferably 144fps). For an RPG or strategy game, 30fps or less is good enough.

I agree on the stuttering though - the only thing worse than low framerate is slightly higher average framerate + big dips.

Re: Legend of Zelda game sells 10M copies in three days

#433
post #49

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I only play my Switch handheld, the game runs fine.

Lower refresh rates are less noticeable on smaller screens, although the distance from the screen also has an effect.

IMO it runs fine docked and handheld, some people just really care about the non-game aspects of a game like performance.

Re: Legend of Zelda game sells 10M copies in three days

#434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your general point but I don't think Tears of the Kingdom is a good example of it. They have clearly poured a mountain of design and engineering effort into squeezing every last drop of graphic fidelity and art out of the Switch. It looks really really good. Some of that is having the wisdom to choose an art style that works well on the Switch—a little cel-shaded, not a ton of texture detail. But, also,…

Yeah honestly they’ve exceeded what the Switch can do at this point and areas of the game drop to 20 fps. The game wouldn’t be worse at 60. 30 is widely viewed as the bare minimum.

Nintendo is a deeply Japanese company, and in Japanese animation, frame rate can be heavily deprioritized. If they have a limited budget, and have to choose between better art/design, or better frame rate, they'll choose the art every time.

Nintendo also clings closely to its roots as a toy manufacturer - their primary goal is to build games that are fun to play.

It shouldn't be surprising that their focus on creating beautiful, fun games resonates deeply with the wider populace. I do notice the framerate occasionally dip during complex scenes, but it's such a wonderfully designed game that I don't really care.

Re: Legend of Zelda game sells 10M copies in three days

#435
post #86
post #8

It is impressive that a game running on an 8-year-old phone GPU will likely be game of the year. Nintendo proved again that gameplay and art direction matter more than anything.

It proves that Nintendo is incapable of doing anything new tbh, where are the new IPs?

Let me preface this by stating I have owned every piece of Nintendo hardware other than Virtual Boy, up to and including the Switch. I have played through BotW and other modern iterations of the usual IP. Also, yeah, this is really long and goes into a bunch of other stuff completely unrelated to TOTW. Sorry xD

Nintendo has a significant chunk of fans on that cultist level where they go ballistic and come for your throat when you point out they’ve been making the same games literally for 40 years. They have like half a dozen totally distinct IPs. LOL at the people bringing up side projects like BoxBoy, which could have shipped on all those old Nokias along with Snake. Mario + Rabbids is a MARIO game crossover and sells on name recognition. Literally nobody in 2023 would know what “Rabbids” even is let alone pay for a game centered on them without the “Mario” part.

The only thing that changes is technology, but they’re always behind too. Zelda is still using N64 single button combat and just sold 10 million copies of a copy/paste of BOTK with 20 year old Banjo and Kazooie Nuts & Bolts creation physics, and the vast majority of critics have to bow and praise. There are some real reviews with actual people out there unafraid to give BOTW/TOTK the 5-6 it deserves, but they’re too few and far between.

None of this is even getting into the gross superiority complex and behavior they show in their treatment of any third party studio even willing to port anything over to their systems, how they hold them hostage if they had ANY kind of involvement on any level financially (RIP Bayonetta 2 and 3), how they treat their own customers with crazy aggressive lawsuits and threats, etc. Just go look up their entire history - even that gold Nintendo label they put on boxes was for monetary and control reasons. Yes, companies do things to protect themselves and profits and blah blah blah, but nobody else does this stuff to the level and in the anti-consumer manner they do. The control and manipulation of Nintendo is even beyond Apple and Marvel/Disney levels, on par with Tesla. It’s literal insanity.

I know this is already way too long, but just a couple other interesting things you’d learn by reading up on their history - neither Sega (who positioned themselves and became a household name as the anti-Nintendo) nor PlayStation (Sony and Nintendo originally were working together on a CD-based system but their draconian behavior led to the partnership being called off by Sony and them going into gaming alone) would have existed in the way they have the past 3 decades if it weren’t for Nintendo being a POS company. Another interesting story involves Square Enix (then SquareSoft) at the end of the SNES generation, basically declaring they’re never making a game for Nintendo again (which didn’t hold up obviously but they still don’t release mainline Final Fantasy on them) and jumped to PlayStation for FF7. There is a two page advertisement for FF7 from back in the day that straight up makes fun of Nintendo by claiming the game is too advanced for them and would have taken up like 20 cartridges lol.

So, for their behavior resulting in these things and others, I do sincerely thank them (and anyone else who somehow got to the end of this)! :D

Re: Legend of Zelda game sells 10M copies in three days

#436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most games coming on current gen hardware are utterly forgettable. I don't make any strong claim that the proportion hasn't shifted, but that has absolutely been the case at every point in my awareness of games. Flip through an old Nintendo Power or Game Pro. Meanwhile, some very interesting games are coming out these days - some of my favorites are from the past 5 years; time will tell how well they hold up, but I…

The NES has somewhere around a thousand distinct games, if you count all markets and include unlicensed games (which there weren't that many of). Maybe 200 of them aren't total trash. Perhaps 100 were genuinely good at the time. Low-tens of them are still at all worth playing for someone without nostalgia goggles—though, in some cases, that's because an entirely-superior remake exists; like, if you want to try the fi…

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Re: Legend of Zelda game sells 10M copies in three days

#437
post #366

I'm often discouraged by comments on Hacker News that downplay the importance of great design in a design-heavy medium. This game isn't succeeding primarily because of great marketing, franchise, or blind loyalty to Nintendo (though all of those help!). It's succeeding primarily because it's the follow-up to a game that critics and players universally found enormously fun. Before Breath of the Wild previous Zelda ent…

I disagree; Zelda games have always been a major draw for Nintendo audiences. Link to the Past was the best-selling game of 1991; Link's Awakening - released in 1993 on the Gameboy - was a defining game for Nintendo at the time and was directly responsible for a massive uptake in Gameboy sales (and was the best-selling game of the year.) OoT was an absolutely industry-defining success; it was the best-selling game of…

I think the point the person you replied to was making was that BotW and TotK aren't just selling due to Zelda nostalgia.

There are lots adults with college degrees now that are playing this game who weren't even in kindergarten yet (or born!) when the games you mentioned were released.

Re: Legend of Zelda game sells 10M copies in three days

#438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latest Zelda games have all used motion controls, while not all contemporary consoles have the hardware for it. Sure, it could be argued that not everyone requires/enjoys motion controls, but Nintendo has never been the kind of company that designs gameplay experiences for the lowest common denominator. Part of what makes Nintendo, Nintendo is that their games target their hardware, and vice versa (Their game roa…

I played 200 hours of BOTW and 100% of my time with TOTK using a PS4 controller. Using the controller’s motion controls to aim my bow is possibly my favourite non-mouse style for aiming ever.

Yeah Zelda's motion controls are great for what they're used for — but that's kind of my point. Even without using a first party controller, you're still enjoying controls that were designed for their own hardware.

If TotK was released for the "Big 3" consoles + PC, motion controls couldn't be relied on, as not all platforms have the hardware for it. I'm not saying that they couldn't make it work without motion controls, but just pointing out that what makes Nintendo special is that their software is made for their hardware, and both are better for it.

Re: Legend of Zelda game sells 10M copies in three days

#439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s true. But the actual hardware doesn’t offer anything particularly unique (which is a win for me: Nintendo is settling down with the gimmicks.) This game would be an objectively better experience if it ran on a PS4/5 or Xbox if you don’t care for the handheld mode. The game is an absolute masterpiece despite hardware, not because of it. I think Nintendo should be lauded for experimenting with hardware, but ultima…

Well the Switch has a big gimmick: it is a desktop & mobile console at the same time. It's in the name. This is why they had to compromise on GPU power and basically skip 2 generations compared to the PS5.

Yes, and seeing the Steam Deck makes me excited for whenever or if ever they finally make a Switch 2. Surely 6 years and multiple GPU generations is enough to let me play the Zelda games in 4k.

Re: Legend of Zelda game sells 10M copies in three days

#440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Minish cap had a gacha machine, it was cute. The important part is you can't use real money on it, which means it HAS to be designed as an actual in game reward. Nintendo's actual microtransaction garbage is the amiibos, which are shameless and often explicitly pay to win.

Minish Cap was 2004 before we had a better understanding of what is and is not a good thing to expose people to. Pokemon Masters is literally a gacha game. The Nintendo theme park will probably have gachapon machines in it now kids are softening to the mechanism of it.

It's so weird that this commenter seems to understand what a "gacha game" is while, in the same breath, claiming that Minish Cap is one.
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