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Apple announces Mac OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion

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Re: Apple announces Mac OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion

#131

Post by rmc »

oinksoft wrote: post #35
pilif wrote: post #13

It seems like the OS is either defaulting to allowing only only App Store applications or at least only (Apple-)signed applications: http://www.apple.com/macosx/mountain-lion/security.html It's still possible to turn this off, but I have a feeling that we should enjoy our freedom to run GNU grep instead of BSD grep for as long as it lasts.

This is a scary preview of Apple's vision of desktop computing (which we all anticipated with the App Store being brought over from the iPhone world to the desktop): The safest place to find apps for your Mac is the Mac App Store. That’s because the developers who create them are known to Apple, and the apps are carefully reviewed before they’re accepted in the store. As I've had no reason to upgrade my home PC from…

the apps are carefully reviewed

Carefully reviewed to ensure they don't upload your whole address book.

Re: Apple announces Mac OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion

#132

Post by batista »

pilif wrote: post #72
batista wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back then I had no permission to use a computer ("they make you stupid" was my parents argument) and certainly no credit card to pay anybody to do development - and even then, as a minor I would probably never have gotten that certificate. The computer isn't free either. And you can always build and distribute without the ID or the certificate. This is just for distribution through the App Store or to users that have…

The computer isn't free either. And you can always build and distribute without the ID or the certificate. This is just for distribution through the App Store or to users that have it set to only allow signed apps. The latter is the default. So for other people to use this application I wrote as a minor, my users would have to change the setting. Well, if you are that easily discouraged, then maybe that career wasn't…

The latter is the default. So for other people to use this application I wrote as a minor, my users would have to change the setting.

Yeah, but should users configure their systems to the distribution convenience of some developers?

Or should Apple keep signed apps forever away from OS X for the same reason?

Or should they introduce them, but make unsafe apps the default, and thus render them useless for non security minded people?

All of those options seem a little strange to me.

Nowadays I couldn't even get /permission/ to try because these various developer programs require you to be an adult due to various organizational issues.

Yes, but consider some other things:

a) nowadays computers are a dime a dozen and more kids have access to them than ever.

b) nowadays there are tons of compilers, programming environments, most of them given away for free and/or open sourced.

c) nowadays a kid can make a web app and reach millions of people worldwide. There are tons of ways to put it up even for free.

d) nowadays there are even kids making iPhone/iPad/Android apps, and some have reached hundreds of thousands of users.

e) the sound/graphics/processing capabilities of modern machines were unheard of in those times.

f) High Level languages like Python/Ruby/Javascript trump anything available at the old times for kids (mostly stuff like Basic, Logo, etc). Especially in the libraries department.

Re: Apple announces Mac OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion

#133

Post by phamilton »

jws wrote: post #46
saturdaysaint wrote: post #32

-I'd probably pay $30 for the Airplay feature alone. -I don't know how Apple thinks they can push these web-enabled apps that only work on their platforms. A chat app that basically only lets you interact with Apple customers is kind of comical. -Gatekeeper won't win over any Apple critics, but it's actually more flexible/open than what a lot of people feared was coming (ie "App Store apps only"). -Notifications and…

A chat app that basically only lets you interact with Apple customers is kind of comical. – would be. Thankfully you probably know people with AIM, XMPP, or SMS chat identities. And iChat works with those too. From the official Apple pages: Messages supports iMessage and instant messaging services such as AIM, Jabber, Google Talk, and Yahoo! Messenger.

What I would really like is if Google Voice could integrate with Messages so all my SMS needs could be taken care of.

Re: Apple announces Mac OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion

#134

Post by ashleyw »

The worrying thing about Apple's Gatekeeper feature isn't that they may impose their moral opinions on apps, but that governments and corporate entities will have the ability to pressure Apple into disabling apps which aren't actually malicious, i.e. Tor & BitCoin.

Whether or not it can be disabled is irrelevant. I don't want to have to instruct my customers about how to essentially jailbreak their Mac just to use my app.

And will it just be .app applications which need to be signed, or will it be all binaries, e.g. Vim and Apache?

Worrying times indeed. I don't particularly want to use Linux, cause I really love OS X's elegance, but I can see switching being a real possibility over the next few years if Apple continues the trend of forcing iOS's walled-garden on OS X.

Re: Apple announces Mac OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion

#135

Post by rmc »

krig wrote: post #48
oinksoft wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a scary preview of Apple's vision of desktop computing (which we all anticipated with the App Store being brought over from the iPhone world to the desktop): The safest place to find apps for your Mac is the Mac App Store. That’s because the developers who create them are known to Apple, and the apps are carefully reviewed before they’re accepted in the store. As I've had no reason to upgrade my home PC from…

I hope you realize that Debian and Ubuntu and most of the large distros already have this: Known, vetted packages, signed and trusted, distributed through a central database. Frankly, I think it's a great idea. People in general shouldn't be downloading and executing random binaries on their machines. I think it would be great if the major distros also refused to install unsigned binaries without explicitly being tol…

In Debian and Ubuntu, i can easily add new signing keys for individual people. This way I can ensure all software distributed by ubuntu and from $PERSON is accepted. Can you do likewise with new OSX?

Re: Apple announces Mac OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion

#136

Post by moe »

orionlogic wrote: post #96
pwthornton wrote: post #85

The thing I'm by far the most excited about is AirPlay Mirroring. If I'm reading this correctly, I'll be able to mirror anything from my Mac to my TV using an Apple TV. This will be great for watching Internet videos, going through my iPhoto library with my wife, looking at home videos, etc. All without needing a stupid cable from my couch to my TV. The deeper iCloud integration is also intriguing. I assume this mean…

I am excited as well in AirPlay Mirroring so i watched several times in the demo. It seems video plays with Quicktime. So lot's of video formats are not compatible like mkv's, iso's etc... If somehow i am able to mirror VLC i will run and buy Apple TV at once.

lot's of video formats are not compatible

This will airplay pretty much everything you throw at it: http://beamer-app.com

Re: Apple announces Mac OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion

#137

Post by ElliotH »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #112
pilif wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of interest how would you feel about it if developer licenses were free for students? I would be much happier (to the effect of actually seeing more good than bad in this restriction) if getting that ID was a matter of filling out a form an passing a turing test - so, for example, if any apple ID could be used to get a signing certificate, that would be much better. (edit: this is not about the money. It's about…

A license is $99. If you can afford a Mac to develop on your can certainly afford a $99 license. They reason the have the fee is to keep out people who aren't serious about development. If they didn't have it for example the forums would be overrun with people who just signed up to get the latest OS beta complaining about bugs (this is already a problem at $99). People can still develop and distribute apps without ev…

Well you can solve that by charging for access to the beta program surely?

Re: Apple announces Mac OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion

#138

Post by mike-cardwell »

batista wrote: post #124
mike-cardwell wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If malware on OSX is as small a problem as you're suggesting, why is Apple bothering with any of this? Is it to wrestle further control of the app eco-system on OSX? Or is it just security theatre? Or both? Something else? The current app eco-system doesn't allow them to just switch off the ability for people to install arbitrary apps. They need to get themselves into a situation where the vast majority of apps are s…

If malware on OSX is as small a problem as you're suggesting, why is Apple bothering with any of this? Is it to wrestle further control of the app eco-system on OSX? Or is it just security theatre? Or both? Something else? I don't understand the question. Apple has been improving OS X security mechanisms in every OS X update. From "address space layout randomization" to the "first run warning". This is another step i…

I stated what malware writers will do.

You then replied by being sarcastic about how malware isn't really a problem.

I then asked a rhetorical question about why would they be doing this if not to defend against malware.

Now you're ranting about how malware could become a problem as if this is somehow news to me.

I'm sure you had a point.

Re: Apple announces Mac OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion

#139

Post by tdfx »

taylorbuley wrote: post #95
ori_b wrote: post #65

" OS X Mountain Lion arrives this summer. With all-new features inspired by iPad, the Mac just keeps getting better and better. " Am I the only person that doesn't want an ipad on the desktop?

It took me a while to get used to Lion's reverse scroll, which in retrospect seems like a layup for this release, but I've come to enjoy it.

Took me about a week and a half to get over that mentally. Now I can't use my girlfriend's computer who is still on Snow Leopard.

Re: Apple announces Mac OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion

#140

Post by [deleted] »

ugh wrote: post #93
mike-cardwell wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If malware on OSX is as small a problem as you're suggesting, why is Apple bothering with any of this? Is it to wrestle further control of the app eco-system on OSX? Or is it just security theatre? Or both? Something else? The current app eco-system doesn't allow them to just switch off the ability for people to install arbitrary apps. They need to get themselves into a situation where the vast majority of apps are s…

They don’t want to be forced to play catch up like Microsoft had to. It’s not that hard to figure out.

[deleted]
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