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Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

med.stanford.edu

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Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#201

Post by theGnuMe »

flippinburgers wrote: post #118

I have had what seems to me to be depression for most of my life (40+ years). I have been fortunate enough to have a kid and, now, I guess I just don't have time to be depressed or something because most of my thoughts of ending life etc have, quite thankfully, gone away. I'm really not trying to be off-putting when I say this but I do sometimes wonder if some instances of depression aren't simply a cause of people n…

It's good that you find joy in having children but others do not and find it stressful. Some folks might find joy in having pets but others do not.

That being said human connection and even animal connection are key ways to help improve and remove depression.

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#202

Post by TeMPOraL »

makeitdouble wrote: post #152
flippinburgers wrote: post #118

I have had what seems to me to be depression for most of my life (40+ years). I have been fortunate enough to have a kid and, now, I guess I just don't have time to be depressed or something because most of my thoughts of ending life etc have, quite thankfully, gone away. I'm really not trying to be off-putting when I say this but I do sometimes wonder if some instances of depression aren't simply a cause of people n…

I feel we have "depression" the same way we get "colds", try to rest hoping it goes away. Most of the time it does, and sometimes it's something else completely, but in contrast to colds, we have no good tool to properly diagnose the exact illnesses, and are probably lumping together myriads of different things under the "depression" umbrella. That also matches how treatment for depression often involves throwing spa…

> but in contrast to colds, we have no good tool to properly diagnose the exact illnesses

Isn't this the case with "colds" too? At least in practice.

Maybe it's my bad luck, or location-specific (Poland, EU) - but ever since I became a parent (and saw myself visiting doctors 10x as often as before), I've started to notice that, unless it's one of few very specific diseases, you just can't seem to get any diagnosis for a "cold" from a doctor. They'll prescribe you/your kid some meds or treatments, but nowhere in the conversation they say "you have ${specific illness}". No such information seems to show in medical documents either. If I ask, they always manage to deflect the question without even acknowledging it (I haven't tried to insist yet, I don't want to be rude to someone who's nice and helping me).

Is this because they genuinely don't know anything beyond "one of many pathogens that cause this group of symptoms", but it doesn't matter because they all respond to the same treatment options (or don't respond to anything, and you're just treating symptoms)? Or is there a practice of not giving such information to patients?

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#204

Post by stuckinhell »

aszantu wrote: post #69
stuckinhell wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thank you for this! I have something very similar

Have you noticed something else? I seem to tolerate sour apples and 1 teaspoon of sauerkraut per day, but not much more. Also garlic seems to be okay, but not onions, chilly powder is okay but not chilli-peppers or pepper, or tomato or seeds in general. Allergy tests all came back negative

I'm leaning towards maybe some gut bacteria causing this illness maybe. My allergy tests were negative too.

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#205

Post by yndoendo »

nonethewiser wrote: post #170
h0l0cube wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do sometimes wonder if some instances of depression aren't simply a cause of people not having families As a child raised by a depressed and emotionally unstable parent, I have to disagree. Being well-adjusted is a good predictor for being a good parent. Even if in some cases people with mental health issues have a positive transformative experience, it's at best a dice role to treat it as therapy, and early chil…

> I do sometimes wonder if some instances of depression aren't simply a cause of people not having families Keyword here is “some.” One instance that does not fall in this category doesnt suggest there arent some cases that do fall in this category.

Replace "some" with "lucky". Is that not what STEAM often tries to do, increase the probability of a positive outcome over a negative. Improve luck.

A person does not fight cancer. A person is lucky if the cancer treatments are effective and they survive. Modern day cancer treatments increase the luck of survival.

Some depression is self induced. Always and continually focusing on the negative of thee past. Seems like top post might of had this type. Time need to support the child replaced the time to keep playing back those scenarios in their head with the continue down the road of depression. Tied with changes to their environment.

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#206

Post by munificent »

simonh wrote: post #200
munificent wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anxiety feels similarly. The most valuable thing I've gotten from the past several years of therapy is a better model for how humans actually process information. The simple model a lot of people have is: 1. Receive some stimulus, input, or experience. 2. Process and understand it. 3. Respond to that emotionally. What we actually do is more like: 1. Receive some stimulus, input, or experience. 2. This data is way too…

It's incredible to me how little insight our conscious selves have into what's going on in our subconscious. It seems like almost all the cognitive hard work goes on in the back end systems and the front end we usually think of as being 'us' is just a thin veneer of awareness. Like a user interface between our unconscious selves and the rest of the world. So when I'm speaking the words just come out. I've got a vague…

> It's incredible to me how little insight our conscious selves have into what's going on in our subconscious.

This is true, but it's also a feature, and not a bug. Conscious processing is extremely slow and resource intensive. Our subsconscious processing has millions of years of evolution behind it to generate good enough solutions to many problems much faster and burning fewer calories than doing the mental processing consciously and deliberately.

It's like running an emulator versus running code natively on the CPU. The latter will always beat the former.

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#207

Post by digging »

kypro wrote: post #156
digging wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe I have some insight as someone who only recently made a breakthrough with lifelong on-and-off depression, and as someone who has had tons of therapeutic conversation (paid and otherwise). Once I finally realized that depression was something happening to me, literally an illness, and that it wasn't an intrinsic part of my personality, I sought medication. That medication had a near-immediate effect of makin…

For the record I'm fine with people telling me I'm wrong, I don't feel invalided or anything, it's simply that I don't agree with the perspective. From what you said I think we probably have slightly different manifestations of depression. Mine doesn't seem to be as absolute as it sounds like yours was. I was happy when I was a kid, it was only when I reached adulthood and started to disliked the way my life was play…

> If I could live my ideal life – one where I wouldn't have to socialise with people and wouldn't have to work for a living (I'm autistic) – I'm fairly sure I'd be fine with my pointless existence (although maybe incorrectly).

I'm actually very, very similar to you in that way. In fact, a lot of what you just wrote resonates with me strongly. I am not doing what I ever thought I would be when I was younger. Honestly, I don't fault you for feeling the way you do. It really just depends on what you want your life to be like moving forward from where you are now.

I'll say that for me, I find it much easier to make others happy when I feel good as when I'm depressed. But I tend not to fall too deeply into hedonistic spirals, so that may be a key difference. Also, I originally started taking bupropion for depression, but it's supposed to help with cravings and addictive behavior as well.

> an optimal me probably wouldn't be autistic

Maybe... it can manifest differently in everyone. I can't imagine myself not being autistic. It's a horrible thought to me. However, I would give my foot to be free of ADHD - it feels like such a burden. (I haven't been able to try medication for that yet.)

> For what it's worth I used to abuse alcohol and while I was drunk that's exactly how I remember feeling and why I drank

Totally, and the same with, well, other substances. One, specifically, which induces pure euphoria for a few hours and made me wish I could feel that constantly. However, the big difference is that being in that state is clearly not sustainable. You can't feel on top of the world at all times; it wouldn't make sense, it would be exhausting, and it would be unsafe.

The medication I'm on allows me to feel sad, tired, bored, anxious, scared, irritated, and everything else. It's just that those emotions don't overtake my whole being anymore. They're things I feel in response to events in my life, just like happiness isn't something I feel all the time.

I guess a better way to explain it would be that it's giving all my emotions an even playing field. I can still get really down when shitty things happen - this week has been really rough for me, and I'm not having a lot of fun. But I can still get chores done, enjoy little pleasures here and there, make tiny progress on some hobby projects, and basically avoid the devastation from coloring all of my experiences. I don't feel hopeless even though I've had a big setback.

So, I guess that's off topic. I don't know if I'm trying to convince you to try medication again or not. (Definitely wouldn't recommend doing any experimentation with a psychiatrist's supervision and a lot of honesty with yourself.) In terms of what's "right" or "wrong", it's really about what you want for yourself. Happiness, pleasure, and joy aren't the same things. To me happiness is about equal parts joy and satisfaction. There of days where I have a lot of fun and don't feel "happiness" because maybe it was a little empty. There are plenty of days where I don't have very much fun and I feel happiness because I'm with my loved ones.

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#208

Post by astura »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #197
astura wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it doesn't get looked down upon, that's absurd. The most socially unacceptable thing for a woman to do is not have kids. Something like 85% of people over 40 have children - it's literally what the vast majority of people do.

Not sure about that. It gets looked down on in some subgroups . I've seen it here: "You shouldn't have kids because global warming". The more you are exposed to those subgroups, the more you perceive that it's looked down on, because the more you hear it being looked down on.

Only in the fringiest of the fringe sub-subgroups.

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#209

Post by martin82 »

mynameisash wrote: post #102

My son, who is diagnosed with ADHD, anxiety, depression, and OCD, and who has been in talk therapy, on SSRIs, and other interventions for years, recently started LENS therapy, also called neurofeedback. (I'm on mobile device, otherwise I'd find the link.) It sounds a lot like a form of TMS. He's had something like 7 sessions, each lasting maybe 15 minutes. The results are nothing short of astounding for our family. H…

Get your son on a keto diet: https://youtu.be/3g4ghKDsVX8

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#210

Post by simonh »

munificent wrote: post #206
simonh wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's incredible to me how little insight our conscious selves have into what's going on in our subconscious. It seems like almost all the cognitive hard work goes on in the back end systems and the front end we usually think of as being 'us' is just a thin veneer of awareness. Like a user interface between our unconscious selves and the rest of the world. So when I'm speaking the words just come out. I've got a vague…

> It's incredible to me how little insight our conscious selves have into what's going on in our subconscious. This is true, but it's also a feature, and not a bug. Conscious processing is extremely slow and resource intensive. Our subsconscious processing has millions of years of evolution behind it to generate good enough solutions to many problems much faster and burning fewer calories than doing the mental proces…

It seems like consciousness has a major role in learning and memory formation. It’s very much about attention to what is important. The thing is it’s also attention to the experience of paying attention to things, and I suspect that’s really all conscious awareness is when it comes right down to it.
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