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Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

med.stanford.edu

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Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#51

Post by kayodelycaon »

asdfman123 wrote: post #5

> “It’s almost as if you’d already decided how you were going to feel, and then everything you were sensing was filtered through that,” he said. “The mood has become primary.” This is 1000% what depression feels like, once you've properly come to terms with it. Your brain seems absolutely compelled to apply the most horrific, negative interpretation to everything that happens to you. Even when you understand it's wro…

For me psychotic paranoia was very much like this. No amount of reason could overcome the irrational thinking.

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#52

Post by blastro »

marcellus23 wrote: post #16
rozularen wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think any of those are addictive actually

just because they're not chemically addictive doesn't mean they're not addictive. Weed isn't chemically addictive but plenty of people struggle with it nonetheless.

same with food?

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#54

Post by jiveturkey42 »

poorbutdebtfree wrote: post #49

Is depression a first world problem? Maybe if we can send over our highly trained and effective therapists to the third world we'd find that 95% are depressed too. It'd make depression much easier to deal with if we knew everybody had it regardless of qualify of life issues.

Probably just people with the luxury to sit inside all day in climate control, completely disregulating the hormones

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#55

Post by SoftTalker »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #27
asdfman123 wrote: post #5

> “It’s almost as if you’d already decided how you were going to feel, and then everything you were sensing was filtered through that,” he said. “The mood has become primary.” This is 1000% what depression feels like, once you've properly come to terms with it. Your brain seems absolutely compelled to apply the most horrific, negative interpretation to everything that happens to you. Even when you understand it's wro…

This is why the related concept of "catastrophizing" comes up so much in the context of therapy: > Catastrophizing is a cognitive distortion that prompts people to jump to the worst possible conclusion, usually with very limited information or objective reason to despair. When a situation is upsetting, but not necessarily catastrophic, they still feel like they are in the midst of a crisis. Anecdotally, many of the p…

This is why the news has always been bad, since way before social media. Disasters, war, scandal, and death have always been more engaging. Also why gossip is almost always negative.

Our brains evolved to deal with what was happening in our immediate vicinity. This was usually fairly neutral to pleasant, with maybe some moments of sadness, loss, alarm and danger. We just aren't mentally equipped to process an unending stream of bad news and really keep the perspective that these things are not happening to me. It's best to just avoid sources of that.

I stopped watching and reading the news a few years ago, and generally feel much less stressed about day to day living.

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#56

Post by digging »

kypro wrote: post #35

I hate this idea that signals can move the "wrong" way. There have been few days in my adult life that I wouldn't have preferred to not be here. Depression sucks. Yet, I don't think people are right when they tell me I'm wrong to be depressed. I hear that some people feel their depression shouldn't be there and that they should feel happy, and in those cases I think this sounds like it could be an excellent solution,…

I believe I have some insight as someone who only recently made a breakthrough with lifelong on-and-off depression, and as someone who has had tons of therapeutic conversation (paid and otherwise).

Once I finally realized that depression was something happening to me, literally an illness, and that it wasn't an intrinsic part of my personality, I sought medication. That medication had a near-immediate effect of making me feel ok. I wasn't depressed, I was able to just get through a day without thinknig too much about it. But it didn't work perfectly, and I found I could still slip into depression a couple times a year.

More recently I got on a new medication that seems to actually work. It's not giving me a fake happiness and it's not taking away any of my very real concerns about how "good" life is. I am not optimistic about my state, my country, the future of humanity, or very much in general. But I am not depressed. I find it easy to enjoy things that I love in life. I can take real pleasure in disconnecting from work and foraging blackberries in the woods. It is pointless to do so (I have plenty of food), but it doesn't feel pointless. It feels fun and interesting.

To me that's the biggest difference with depression. I can be extremely sad, and I often am. I can even believe that the world would be better off without me (I go back and forth), but I still feel satisfied to be alive. Even on my bad days, I can take small pleasures.

I do think that staying depressed is "wrong" insofar as I would say it is "right" to seek comfort, pleasure, and health. I also think that it's fair to say these signals are moving in the "wrong" direction with respect to the direction that they move in non-depressed people. If the goal is not to be depressed, and something is causing depression, it's a "wrong" action.

But I don't want this to sound like I'm chastising you. I get it. I am still a pretty pessimistic person and everything you're saying is logical. The difference is, I can think about and believe those things without it changing how I feel on a fundamental level. It is extremely hard to see that without getting treatment. And I also understand that it sucks to be told you're "wrong" or there's something "wrong" with you for being depressed, because it's happened to me plenty. So I understand your qualms with the language. Again, though - you don't have to feel bad. You can think the world sucks (my state government wants me and my community eradicated) and still feel good.

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#57

Post by bitL »

jaggederest wrote: post #7
e79 wrote: post #3

It’s fascinating how many potential modalities are at play with depression. Serotonin, inflammation, direction of brain signals. This suggests that depression may be a label that points to one of many underlying conditions, which could also explain why it’s so tricky to treat for some individuals.

I have a pet theory that much of what we call mental health and chronic illness will eventually be traced back as a symptom of some causative factor - most likely infectious or environmental - rather than being a base illness as we think of them now. Much as we don't think of "fever" as an illness any more, I suspect "depression" will become descriptive rather than predictive - which, to an extent, it already is, at…

I think they should first stop treating depression as a single illness. There are likely thousands different reasons for brain to end up with similar symptoms. Many forms of nutritional deficiencies likely turn into something that can be symptomatically classified as depression and sometimes be fully reversible by just restocking that missing nutrient or reducing its intake. Yet we clinically classify such conditions the same as ones caused by some brain injury or mentally horrible experiences that rewire brain circuits in weird ways.

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#58

Post by [deleted] »

kypro wrote: post #35

I hate this idea that signals can move the "wrong" way. There have been few days in my adult life that I wouldn't have preferred to not be here. Depression sucks. Yet, I don't think people are right when they tell me I'm wrong to be depressed. I hear that some people feel their depression shouldn't be there and that they should feel happy, and in those cases I think this sounds like it could be an excellent solution,…

[deleted]

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#59

Post by sdwr »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #38
OptCohTomo wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is what depression felt like to me as well. I’ve written a book about it, Can’t Be Trusted. It is a memoir about engineering, mental health, and aviation. Here is more information about me and my book: https://cantbetrusted.org/?page_id=262 As a laser engineer with an interest in computing, I think this book would be of interest to the tech community.

Simply by posting it you'll get someone's attention (like myself!) However you may get downvoted because you asked how to get upvoted, which can be counterintuitive if you're Neurodivergent (like many of us). It's ok, that's not how you intended it, but that is most likely not a helpful part of the message here.

I don't want to get baited, really don't want to get baited here, but here goes. I've had my own struggles with mental health, maybe I can phrase it in a helpful way. This reply is for the book writer:

All your points may very well be true, but taken together, they paint a picture of you as sick and untrustworthy. Society puts requirements on people, stuff like

- wearing clothes in public

-

One of those requirements is emotional resilience. Being able to absorb a setback or percieved slight, and keep moving forward in your day. It can also be seen as a game of emotional poker - sometimes you win a bit, sometimes you lose a bit, but if your bank goes down to 0, you're out!

You are holding on to these slights and injustices, and it doesn't matter whether you are right or wrong. It's a catch-22, the fact that you keep complaining instead of moving on with your day proves that you are unwell.

Trepanning is an analogy for schizophrenia. That's where part of a person's skull is removed, and the brain is directly exposed to the air. You are exposing your feelings to the world, where a normal person would have an emotional lid.

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#60

Post by aszantu »

Don't know who needs to hear this. I started a food diary after an elimination diet which restored my energy levels.

I don't know the reasons, but you're looking in a time window of four-seven days.

When I stray from my diet (meat and water) one day. I become mentally unstable after 4 days. It says for 3 day, then gets good again.

Crying for no reason, ruminating, poor sleep, strong sour smell that can't seem to be removed by washing but can be suppressed by a strong anti transpirant.

Going for sibo testing soon, if it's not hereditary, enzymes might be a solution. If it is, Pankreas is up for investigation next.

Been looking for solutions since 2018, no doctor could offer an explanation so far.

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