Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

med.stanford.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 215 posts

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#81

Post by junon »

hanselot wrote: post #37
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the few times I've heard an accurate and concise description of what it feels like. I like the metaphor of the spiral wishingwell. The coin/ball represents the level of depression you sink into. The gravitational draw of the void makes the spiral go faster unless you figure out a way to pull out of it and the longer you wait the harder it is to pull out cause it's moving too quickly. So the trick becom…

The only way out is through. One way or another, once you reach the shore on the other side, the time spent in the water doesn't seem so bad anymore. Just another perspective to lean on when understanding others. Once you confront it in the most absolute sense, something akin to ego-death occurs, and you make a decision about whether it is worthwhile to continue. Everything comes from and swings back to chaos. Embrac…

Can relate. I don't know how, or why, or what I did to get to the other end, but one day I woke up, and it was gone. Years of nearly crippling depression, ruined friendships, hardships at work, nights of 'considering', all finished in an instant. It was absolutely bizarre and wonderful and concerning at the same time.

Woke up and thought "alright this is stupid, I need to get stuff done" and as though it were magically manifesting out of thin air I had a normal train of thought, my emotions were mostly in check, and I had motivation that I hadn't felt in years.

Almost like cracking a knuckle, but in my own brain. GP's comment resonates very hard.

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#82

Post by aszantu »

agnosticmantis wrote: post #80
NeuNeurosis wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely have experience with the same thing with food. I did end up finding out it was my Pancreas and take enzymes with every meal. Really really helps and has given me way more energy and my guts feel 90% better. Still have to watch certain foods and drink plenty of water but it is way better. Good luck.

Curious to try this but I’m unfamiliar. What kind of enzymes did you find helpful? (What’s the name of the product if you don’t mind sharing?) Are they over the counter or prescription?

Oof it's some basic reasoning. I've seen an add for a d a test that can determine missing enzymes.

This triggered brain to make the connection between sibo and enzymes.

Basically: if crbs trigger depression AND it takes 4 days to do so, it has to do something with fermentation. Bacteria and yeast do fermentation and they can only settle in the long intestine if there is enough to eat. ergo: I might not be making enough enzymes to get rid of glucose and fructose and after 4 days the ferments get through the gut lining into the bloodstream or whatever and I'm basically hangover for the next few days.

This led me into looking into enzymes to break down sugars, (veggies are secondary concern right now)

At least what I found after 30 mind of googling was that you shouldn't just take them cuz it could be hereditary - that's when I stopped reading and decided to get tested for sibo first.

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#83

Post by throitallaway »

jordan_curve wrote: post #50
endisneigh wrote: post #21

disclaimer: I acknowledge depression as an illness and state of being. that being said, if you take someone who is objectively "not depressed" and apply these same depression treatments, what would happen? some state of euphoria? heightened mood? happiness? suppose that new state is now the normal state in which people are judged against. now, the before-mentioned person who was not depressed, may be considered depre…

one common effect of SSRIs is that they can dull emotions. This is helpful and can be a positive effect if you are very depressed or get stuck in anxious spiraling. If you're very stable and happy emotionally, then that dulling might be unpleasant. Beyond that, while SSRIs tend to have fewer side effects and be more safe than many other classes of anti-depressants, even SSRIs have very noticeable side effects. They a…

Or, SSRIs dull you to the point of feeling like an observer (rather than participant) of your own life, which makes one even more depressed and hopeless.

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#84

Post by fpgaminer »

Other comments have proposed that depression may have multiple underlying causes, and thus may require different treatments.

I'm curious about the other direction of thinking. What do SSRIs, psychedelics, CBT, and TMS all have in common? Suppose that there is one common cause, or one at least one cause that applies to 90% of cases. And it's treated by all these seemingly disparate methods.

That's what tickles my curiosity the most, as it begs a more fundamental question about the functioning of the brain.

Maybe the author's theory is correct: brain signals between certain regions are going the "wrong" way in depressed patients. That would imply that SSRIs are causing the same shift. God, I would love if the authors tested that. And then we can finally dig into why SSRIs work (we don't current know). If they're causing shifts in brain activity flow, then we can find out how. And from there maybe we can treat other mental diseases with better pharmacological or TMS solutions. Are things like schizophrenia arising from a similar bad pathing of information around the brain?

Psychedelics is also a weird one. People have proposed many theories as to their mode of operation for treating depression. But now I wonder, based on this research, if the key factor was just the disassociation from one's body and altering of senses. The other effects like connecting disparate thoughts, forming more brain connections, ego death, etc may not be related at all. That could lead the way to more targeted drugs.

Really cool stuff. If if pans out, of course. But unlike other theories of depression, at least this one is easy to test.

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#85

Post by [deleted] »

hirvi74 wrote: post #65
kyleyeats wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weed is chemically addictive. Your endocannabinoid system is downregulated for weeks after heavy use. You get withdrawal symptoms which are alleviated by use. I've never seen the phrase "chemically addictive" used by someone who knew what they were talking about. It's only used by people who don't understand that neurotransmitters are chemicals too. Stop spreading this BS distinction.

Correct me if I am mistaken, but aren't withdrawal symptoms more indicative of a dependency than an addiction? Cessation of SSRIs can have all kinds of symptoms depending on the time length of usage, but I have never heard someone claim to be addicted to SSRIs.

[deleted]

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#86

Post by aszantu »

NeuNeurosis wrote: post #78
aszantu wrote: post #60

Don't know who needs to hear this. I started a food diary after an elimination diet which restored my energy levels. I don't know the reasons, but you're looking in a time window of four-seven days. When I stray from my diet (meat and water) one day. I become mentally unstable after 4 days. It says for 3 day, then gets good again. Crying for no reason, ruminating, poor sleep, strong sour smell that can't seem to be r…

Definitely have experience with the same thing with food. I did end up finding out it was my Pancreas and take enzymes with every meal. Really really helps and has given me way more energy and my guts feel 90% better. Still have to watch certain foods and drink plenty of water but it is way better. Good luck.

Did u ever get around to find out why the enzymes aren't made by your body?

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#87

Post by stuckkeys »

digging wrote: post #56
kypro wrote: post #35

I hate this idea that signals can move the "wrong" way. There have been few days in my adult life that I wouldn't have preferred to not be here. Depression sucks. Yet, I don't think people are right when they tell me I'm wrong to be depressed. I hear that some people feel their depression shouldn't be there and that they should feel happy, and in those cases I think this sounds like it could be an excellent solution,…

I believe I have some insight as someone who only recently made a breakthrough with lifelong on-and-off depression, and as someone who has had tons of therapeutic conversation (paid and otherwise). Once I finally realized that depression was something happening to me, literally an illness, and that it wasn't an intrinsic part of my personality, I sought medication. That medication had a near-immediate effect of makin…

what medication did you use? I am on the waiting list for controlled shrooms. Also you are not alone. Depression runs in my family (mother side) it is a rollercoaster. I have found drone flying FPV to be relaxing. But yeah, hang in there. The world is a better place with you, do not give up.

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#88

Post by munificent »

asdfman123 wrote: post #5

> “It’s almost as if you’d already decided how you were going to feel, and then everything you were sensing was filtered through that,” he said. “The mood has become primary.” This is 1000% what depression feels like, once you've properly come to terms with it. Your brain seems absolutely compelled to apply the most horrific, negative interpretation to everything that happens to you. Even when you understand it's wro…

Anxiety feels similarly.

The most valuable thing I've gotten from the past several years of therapy is a better model for how humans actually process information. The simple model a lot of people have is:

1. Receive some stimulus, input, or experience.

2. Process and understand it.

3. Respond to that emotionally.

What we actually do is more like:

1. Receive some stimulus, input, or experience.

2. This data is way too ambiguous to make sense of on its own. So to turn it into coherent information, interpret it through the lens of a narrative about who we are and how we expect the world to work. This happens automatically and unconsciously.

3. React to that interpretation emotionally.

4. Watch logical rational brain then scramble around trying to come up with a coherent story that explains why we started feeling a certain way. The answer it comes up with may or may not agree with the unsconscious process that happened in step 2.

So much of therapy is "Why does X make me feel Y?" How do I fix X? The answer is almost always that X doesn't make you feel Y. X in the context of belief Z you have about yourself leads do you feeling Y. You fix Z by questioning the often toxic beliefs you hold about yourself. But it can take a lot of work and therapy to even be able to see Z, much less root it out and install a better narrative.

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#89

Post by amelius »

asdfman123 wrote: post #5

> “It’s almost as if you’d already decided how you were going to feel, and then everything you were sensing was filtered through that,” he said. “The mood has become primary.” This is 1000% what depression feels like, once you've properly come to terms with it. Your brain seems absolutely compelled to apply the most horrific, negative interpretation to everything that happens to you. Even when you understand it's wro…

I sometimes get this when I'm tired. The solution is not to think about it more, but instead to just have some sleep.

Re: Researchers treat depression by reversing brain signals traveling the wrong way

#90

Post by detourdog »

asdfman123 wrote: post #5

> “It’s almost as if you’d already decided how you were going to feel, and then everything you were sensing was filtered through that,” he said. “The mood has become primary.” This is 1000% what depression feels like, once you've properly come to terms with it. Your brain seems absolutely compelled to apply the most horrific, negative interpretation to everything that happens to you. Even when you understand it's wro…

wild, this explains a particular relationship. I deliver what I perceive as good news and the response is consistently the worst interpretation of every detail.
Post reply on HN