81–90 of 216 posts
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I'm surprised these private security goons don't get guns pointed at them more often. As I understand American law it would be legal to shoot them if they refused to leave your property in some states.
I always wonder about stories like this what the internal process that lead to this insane overreaction was. At some point, did someone really make the decision "lets send Pinkertons to this guy's house, risking an enormous publicity backlash"? It's easy to blame "the legal department" for stuff like this, but it seems extreme even for the most zealous attorney. My hunch is that they probably have some kind of securi…
Play Pinkerton games, win Pinkerton prizes.
Or, less flippantly: everyone knows who the Pinkertons are and what they do. And the fact that everyone knows is, quite literally, the actual service that they offer. They will do such things without you have to explicitly tell them.
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Is there any indication or evidence anyone impersonated law enforcement?
I guess it depends what you mean by "impersonate." Are you asking whether they literally claimed to be a police officer? If so, they almost certainly did not. But they probably showed up with a uniform and a brass badge with words like "sergeant" and "national" and "service" on it next to maybe an eagle and a flag, and they probably talked about how the homeowner was in trouble with the law.
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Yes, but it requires people to know their legal rights, and engage with them Had the police been called most likely the police would have said "this is a civil matter" not done nothing, at most taken a report for a detective to investigate the alleged theft. Also had the homeowner just said "leave my property", and then the police called, the private militia would then be trespassing and the police would remove them.…
That is a good description of what is , but not what ought to be . It's very easy to discuss this after the fact, detached from the situation with a calm head, and be confident that this victim would have been legally in the clear. But rational analysis is sorely absent when an armed gang shows up at your door demanding something and threatening more violence if you don't comply. The legal dynamic in the US has basic…
That is why my standing policy is to never answer the door unless I am expecting someone. Even for package delivery I have a table for them to leave the package on.
>>Whereas what really needs to happen is for various aggressor parties to be legally restrained from using coercion to begin with.
Examples of laws where this happens would be great.
>>And that's not even touching the dynamic where various types of aggressors end up shooting first despite being in the wrong, cry "self defense", and then successfully avoid getting charged with second degree murder.
Examples please.
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Is there any indication or evidence anyone impersonated law enforcement?
I guess it depends what you mean by "impersonate." Are you asking whether they literally claimed to be a police officer? If so, they almost certainly did not. But they probably showed up with a uniform and a brass badge with words like "sergeant" and "national" and "service" on it next to maybe an eagle and a flag, and they probably talked about how the homeowner was in trouble with the law.
Geez people really just create the drama they want. Easily should've told them to pound dirt and slam the door in their face.
Instead the article goes on about one agent being apologetic, and the others not caring.
People really are not aware of their rights.
Remember, if someone has to ASK you or have you CONSENT you can say no. But it seems people don't know they can refuse anymore.
Lucky they didn't get shot. A private entity has no right to raid your house. That is some extremely ballsy behavior for a non-state actor in the US.
Did they threaten violence? Do you consider if reasonable or likely that a private citizen would shoot an unarmed, nonviolent person at their door?
It sure sounds like it to me, even if only implicitly. They were certainly being intimidating, and intimidation rests on the foundation of the threat of violence.
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There’s a massive list of bonehead decisions made by WotC and none have resulted in firing. It’s an interesting hobby where fans have played no matter what the company does and the company knows that.
>It’s an interesting hobby where fans have played no matter what the company does and the company knows that. I don't think thats true. They walked back their license BS over fan outrage.
Here’s some stuff I remember: -underprinting (legends) and overprinting (fallen empires)
-saying they wouldn’t reprint things (reserved list) then reprinting some, and monkeying around with it for 5 years
-original magic online in early 00s was completely poorly built at the time of lots of other MOOCs and a super lively IRC open source client, Apprentice, that they could have just cloned
-launching their new digital game, arena, as desktop only for its first three years
-killing their tournament play
-cutting out local stores with direct to consumer sales (and massive distribution through Amazon)
-$100 “vip” booster packs
-poor quality control that makes cards look like pringles
-multiple versions of each card with different foiling techniques
-firing artists over liking tweets
-new product every two months instead of 3-4 times per year
-freaking out over leaked spoilers
-telling some people what cards would be reprinted beforehand to have them purchase or sell accordingly
-not putting shandalar on steam/ never making sequels
I get that the youtuber just wanted no trouble, but he may have really screwed himself by not insisting on a waver of liability, agreement that the existing videos can stay up (or, alternatively, compensation to replace the lost income from them), and compensation for his costs at a minimum. Handing WOTC's paid thugs the material probably didn't do anything to reduce his risk and took away the little leverage he had…
Easy to say from your armchair and not when the gestapo are at your door. If thugs appear at my door demanding a $50 item or else , yeah....I will probably just give it to them. See if I can claw it back later. The Pinkerton employees on the other hand, were less cordial to the YouTuber. Cannon told Kotaku over email that they had threatened to get the county sheriff involved if he did not return the MtG cards. They…
Close the door and call the police if they don't go away.
I didn't intend it as a criticism but more of a "if you ever find yourself in a similar situation, you may want to consider!".
The YTer had this dropped in his lap, he didn't have a chance to get advice or even consider it fully-- presumably strategic on the part of WotC. Any remotely reasonable response would be blameless in my eyes.
(and if I were determined to find fault, clearly the fault would be answering the door in the first place! :) )
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That's why it needs to be a crime to impersonate law enforcement. I thought it was already, but here we are.
It is but we also have PI’s. Usually ex-cops or ex-military members with an intelligence angle. These are intimidating people by design. If you had a squad of paramilitary at your door, and you were the typical magic player, you’d give them the keys if they asked.
I haven't played MtG since the 90s, so I'm maybe not clued in on what a "typical magic player" is, but I would expect them to be pretty rules-lawyer-y (both on and off the table) and would stand their ground on principle.