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Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

kotaku.com

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Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#61

Post by JohnFen »

OskarS wrote: post #15

I always wonder about stories like this what the internal process that lead to this insane overreaction was. At some point, did someone really make the decision "lets send Pinkertons to this guy's house, risking an enormous publicity backlash"? It's easy to blame "the legal department" for stuff like this, but it seems extreme even for the most zealous attorney. My hunch is that they probably have some kind of securi…

> My hunch is that they probably have some kind of security contract with the Pinkertons to safeguard secrets, and the Pinkertons acted on their own

This is almost certainly the case, but Pinkerton was acting as agents of WotC here, so WotC are the ones ultimately responsible.

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#62

Post by mindslight »

phpisthebest wrote: post #12
carlmr wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was no evidence of wrongdoing on his part. Even if they had evidence that he stole something, a private militia shouldn't be called to enforce this, but a police investigation. Somebody at WotC should be held liable for this. Are there no laws in America against this?

Yes, but it requires people to know their legal rights, and engage with them Had the police been called most likely the police would have said "this is a civil matter" not done nothing, at most taken a report for a detective to investigate the alleged theft. Also had the homeowner just said "leave my property", and then the police called, the private militia would then be trespassing and the police would remove them.…

That is a good description of what is, but not what ought to be.

It's very easy to discuss this after the fact, detached from the situation with a calm head, and be confident that this victim would have been legally in the clear. But rational analysis is sorely absent when an armed gang shows up at your door demanding something and threatening more violence if you don't comply.

The legal dynamic in the US has basically evolved to justify shakedown behavior, where it's technically possible to "stand up" for your rights if you know the exact song and dance at the right time, but practically most people don't and can't. Whereas what really needs to happen is for various aggressor parties to be legally restrained from using coercion to begin with.

And that's not even touching the dynamic where various types of aggressors end up shooting first despite being in the wrong, cry "self defense", and then successfully avoid getting charged with second degree murder.

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#63

Post by stale2002 »

Throw73849 wrote: post #32
last_responder wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was no raid

You ask them to leave, they do not... Unless the "security" recorded and streamed everything into cloud, very difficult to prove.

No, actually.

You cannot just shoot someone who is standing outside your doorway, And claim that they were trying to break in.

You would go to jail.

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#64

Post by nickthegreek »

permo-w wrote: post #47
f0e4c2f7 wrote: post #22

Wizards of the Coast seems to be on a rampage to do as much damage to their brand as possible. Weren't they pretty beloved by fans before some of these more recent actions? It's like they've turned into the Comcast of table top games. What do they really have beyond their brand? People can play other games.

the DnD movie was very good. maybe they’re getting overconfident

Apparently not good enough for a sequel though. Kinda sad how good something has to do to be considered successful these days.

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#65

Post by nickthegreek »

prepend wrote: post #56
shepardrtc wrote: post #39

Whoever at WotC decided to send them should be fired. It's just a trading card game. Contact the guy through normal means and ask him to return them.

There’s a massive list of bonehead decisions made by WotC and none have resulted in firing. It’s an interesting hobby where fans have played no matter what the company does and the company knows that.

>It’s an interesting hobby where fans have played no matter what the company does and the company knows that.

I don't think thats true. They walked back their license BS over fan outrage.

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#66

Post by dragonwriter »

standardUser wrote: post #43
rjbwork wrote: post #26

Lucky they didn't get shot. A private entity has no right to raid your house. That is some extremely ballsy behavior for a non-state actor in the US.

Did they threaten violence? Do you consider if reasonable or likely that a private citizen would shoot an unarmed, nonviolent person at their door?

> Do you consider if reasonable or likely that a private citizen would shoot an unarmed, nonviolent person at their door?

Reasonable? No.

But its a kind of unreasonable that is far from unheard of (even when it is “in their driveway” rather than “at their door”.)

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#67

Post by nickthegreek »

stale2002 wrote: post #63
Throw73849 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You ask them to leave, they do not... Unless the "security" recorded and streamed everything into cloud, very difficult to prove.

No, actually. You cannot just shoot someone who is standing outside your doorway, And claim that they were trying to break in. You would go to jail.

>You would go to jail.

You could go to jail. In some state's in the US, it is by no way guaranteed.

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#68

Post by JohnFen »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #21
nullc wrote: post #11

I get that the youtuber just wanted no trouble, but he may have really screwed himself by not insisting on a waver of liability, agreement that the existing videos can stay up (or, alternatively, compensation to replace the lost income from them), and compensation for his costs at a minimum. Handing WOTC's paid thugs the material probably didn't do anything to reduce his risk and took away the little leverage he had…

Easy to say from your armchair and not when the gestapo are at your door. If thugs appear at my door demanding a $50 item or else , yeah....I will probably just give it to them. See if I can claw it back later. The Pinkerton employees on the other hand, were less cordial to the YouTuber. Cannon told Kotaku over email that they had threatened to get the county sheriff involved if he did not return the MtG cards. They…

> If thugs appear at my door demanding a $50 item or else

If thugs appear at my door for any reason, that door gets slammed shut and I'll be on the phone to get the actual police.

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#69

Post by olyjohn »

JohnFen wrote: post #55
PointA2B wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He could've closed the door in their faces and there would be nothing they could do about it. The company relied on theatrics and false threats to get back a legitimately purchased product.

That's exactly what I would have done. "Tell the cops to come with a warrant, and I'll open the door for them."

Yep, would have told those dummy mall cops to fuck right off.

Re: Wizards of the Coast Raids YouTuber’s House to Take Back Magic Cards

#70

Post by Throw73849 »

stale2002 wrote: post #63
Throw73849 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You ask them to leave, they do not... Unless the "security" recorded and streamed everything into cloud, very difficult to prove.

No, actually. You cannot just shoot someone who is standing outside your doorway, And claim that they were trying to break in. You would go to jail.

Whatever. Coming into someones house to make threats is very stupid idea.

One day I came into my kitchen, there is my wife crying, and three big threating guys I do not know. I ask them to leave, instead of heading to door, they are aggressive and surround me. What do you thing is going to happen?

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