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Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

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Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#181

Post by rhaway84773 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #162
Gigachad wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans like to think they have a monopoly on skilled programmers. But the reality is that most countries have them and they will do the same work for a fraction of the price. Everything is done over the internet these days so it doesn't matter that much where you are located.

> Americans like to think they have a monopoly on skilled programmers. Almost no American in the tech industry thinks that, given how many of our co-workers aren't (or at least weren't born as) American. > But the reality is that most countries have them and they will do the same work for a fraction of the price. At the high end of the tech labor market, it is actually a world market for talent, meaning the talent go…

> Almost no American in the tech industry thinks that, given how many of our co-workers aren't (or at least weren't born as) American.

And yet nearly every American is vehemently against the H1B visa which is the only way for 99% of non American tech workers to work in the U.S. and not do the same work outside the US.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#182

Post by throw123123123 »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #59
throw123123123 wrote: post #3

I don't see why that is inconsistent. Companies doing layoffs keep hiring people, what are the news?

Well, consider a different scenario. I was on a two-person team that was, due to recent client poaching, pretty severely overstaffed. Our manager had just been promoted and we got a new one hired in. He viewed our lack of work to do as temporary and started recruiting. He eventually hired a third member and we started training her. After the first day of training, I was fired with no notice and no severance. The mana…

I dont know, but companies need to keep hiring because of both staff turn over and switch of priorities. Presumably, the people getting hired are for positions that are perceived more valuable by management than the work people being let go are doing.

And of course, companies also have practical right to make mistakes, from overstaffing to understaffing, or to place bets that do well or do not.

The point is that these things would happen even if things were being run perfectly, so they are not indicative of nefarious practices or abuses.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#183

Post by rhaway84773 »

Gigachad wrote: post #62
whaleofatw2022 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We still have a monopoly on good language practices for American english and/or AFAIK how to actually build something that solves business needs rather than requirements. We saw similar between 2005ish-2015ish. Lots of offshoring where you could get whatever you 'wanted' built, but it was exactly what you 'wanted' and not what actually made sense. By this I am referring to contract houses that weren't quite 'code gen…

You are probably thinking about dirt cheap outsourcing to places like India. When part of the shift that's happening now is internal hiring of full time developers in places like Australia or the UK where the language skills and culture is pretty much the same but the wages far lower.

Indian developers are far superior to Australian and UK developers.

It’s just that you’re hiring a million Indian developers for every 1000 UK developers, so is it surprising that the average Indian developer doesn’t seem as good?

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#184

Post by rhaway84773 »

jimbob45 wrote: post #99
Gigachad wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans like to think they have a monopoly on skilled programmers. But the reality is that most countries have them and they will do the same work for a fraction of the price. Everything is done over the internet these days so it doesn't matter that much where you are located.

99% of what makes a developer valuable is their skill in communication, not their skill in coding.

So considering Asian developers far outnumber American ones, maybe the real bottleneck is the insistence on including American developers.

Especially since American developers are unlikely to speak any other language, while their Asian counterparts can communicate extremely well in their primary language and do a more than decent job in communicating in English as well.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#185

Post by the_only_law »

hippich wrote: post #117

Total anecdote, but after probably 4-5 years of almost no emails from bodyshops, I started getting tons of emails and calls from familiar call centers... Things certainly changed.

When I look at jobs in my stack now, it seems to be mostly consulting firms with bizarre names that sound like they belong in Office Space and the most spammy listings by equally bizarre sounding recruiting agencies .

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#186

Post by dghlsakjg »

pb7 wrote: post #171
dghlsakjg wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes them compliant with American law. Your company may still not be in compliance with local law (which can differ significantly in the liberal interpretation of what the us thinks a contractor is), and that can cause serious issues.

Earnest question: what serious issues do you envision if the company doesn't physically operate in that country?

The employee may find themselves in hot water or facing some serious tax implications, the company may find that they are no longer able to do business there, the executives of the company may find that they have trouble at the border.

Depending on treaties, not having a formal business entity in a country doesn’t make you immune to their laws and taxes (not a lawyer, but it is totally possible to collect foreign debts in the US for example), if you’re publicly traded, breaking foreign laws intentionally is a BAD idea. On top of all that most companies strive to stay on the right side of the law regardless of the ability to get away with it.

Not an exact parallel, but see the saga of the Huawei exec who was arrested in Canada on behalf of the US for a business deal made by a Chinese company with Iran.

Are you probably going to get away with it? Yes, if you aren’t a very big fish. But what if you don’t.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#187

Post by refurb »

pydry wrote: post #56
refurb wrote: post #32

The only way this could be a problem is if you assume employees are fungible. But they aren't. You may have too many of one type of worker, and not enough of another, so it would make perfect sense to lay off the first ones, and hire foreign workers for the second one.

>The only way this could be a problem is if you assume employees are fungible. Which Google does by pushing every hire through the same hiring funnel.

But presumably they make hiring decisions based on skill set and need.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#188

Post by [deleted] »

oceliker wrote: post #174
estebank wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After living and working in a place for 10 years you no longer have "a place to go back," the new place is your home, regardless of whether USCIS and US immigration laws categorize you as a "non-resident alien." Uprooting people's lives, including that of US nationals (10 years is long enough to meet someone and have kids, even people that do not have a US citizenship or permanent residence either) is not humane. Vis…

Small nit, anybody who stayed in the US for 10 years is very unlikely to be a nonresident alien (which is mainly an IRS tax classification and doesn’t have much to do with having an immigrant visa) source: current resident alien

[deleted]

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#189

Post by seanmcdirmid »

rhaway84773 wrote: post #181
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Americans like to think they have a monopoly on skilled programmers. Almost no American in the tech industry thinks that, given how many of our co-workers aren't (or at least weren't born as) American. > But the reality is that most countries have them and they will do the same work for a fraction of the price. At the high end of the tech labor market, it is actually a world market for talent, meaning the talent go…

> Almost no American in the tech industry thinks that, given how many of our co-workers aren't (or at least weren't born as) American. And yet nearly every American is vehemently against the H1B visa which is the only way for 99% of non American tech workers to work in the U.S. and not do the same work outside the US.

> And yet nearly every American is vehemently against the H1B visa

That is a very broad generalization, considering 27% of Americans are foreign born. Yes, the MAGA crowd is largely against H1Bs (and even here you'll find lots of exceptions), but they didn't win the last election.

> which is the only way for 99% of non American tech workers to work in the U.S. and not do the same work outside the US.

And yet, America has a lot of H1Bs and greencard holders, unlike China or India themselves (I say this having worked on a Z work visa in China for 9 years).

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#190

Post by estebank »

oceliker wrote: post #174
estebank wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After living and working in a place for 10 years you no longer have "a place to go back," the new place is your home, regardless of whether USCIS and US immigration laws categorize you as a "non-resident alien." Uprooting people's lives, including that of US nationals (10 years is long enough to meet someone and have kids, even people that do not have a US citizenship or permanent residence either) is not humane. Vis…

Small nit, anybody who stayed in the US for 10 years is very unlikely to be a nonresident alien (which is mainly an IRS tax classification and doesn’t have much to do with having an immigrant visa) source: current resident alien

That wording is used both by the IRS and USCIS. Non-GC holders are non-resident aliens, but some visas are "dual intent" which allow you to become a resident alien/permanent resident/green card holder. For the IRS being a resident alien means that when you get kicked out of the country after (iirc) living in here for 7 years you have to pay taxes on any assets you own in the US as if you had sold them, just like Americans have to when renouncing their citizenship.

Edit: Quick googling to double check myself and it seems you're right in that USCIS indeed doesn't use that wording, which I must be getting confused with some other term they use in some form, or some other agency, or I'm just plain wrong and got the IRS wording internalized with something else.

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