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Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

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Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#131

Post by JimmyAustin »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #126
kasey_junk wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t necessarily believe this position but not a single one of your points argues against the theory that H1b visas are bad for green card/citizen holders during times of layoffs. It’s a perfectly logical (if not humane given current immigration law) position to hold that companies should be required to lay off visa holders first and for there to be a “cooling off” period between layoffs and hiring of visa holders…

Visas always are bad for citizen workers, full stop. They are always competition blunting the labor market. It is always good to be labor in a labor constrained market, and the lower supply, the better. I don't see how any liberalization could help local workers in the short term (I assume liberalization means expansion in this context).

By that logic babies are bad for workers, they grow up and take their jobs!

Except that is obviously ridiculous, because people on visas induce their own demand in the local economy, growing the pie for everyone. They are also pre-trained, commit crime at a level vastly below the citizen population, don't get any sort of welfare, and pay enormous amounts of taxes.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#132

Post by ipaddr »

diebeforei485 wrote: post #77
toomuchtodo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And there was no one capable for these roles in those 12,000 people? I find that hard to believe. If the answer is “no”, prove it (I have been the sponsor of H1Bs, and am familiar with the paperwork and the process). Edit: > Normalizing reneging on job offers is a bad path to go down. Google has already done this previously during economic uncertainty. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/29/google-said-to-rescind-job-o...

These folks were already hired. You seem to be suggesting that Google should have rescinded their offers. Normalizing reneging on job offers is a bad path to go down.

This happened to many when the layoffs started

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#133

Post by JimmyAustin »

cjbgkagh wrote: post #129
s1artibartfast wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visas always are bad for citizen workers, full stop. They are always competition blunting the labor market. It is always good to be labor in a labor constrained market, and the lower supply, the better. I don't see how any liberalization could help local workers in the short term (I assume liberalization means expansion in this context).

It’s worse than that, it’s the citizenry subsidizing the business as the business can pay less by offering immigration as part of the package which is desirable due to the investments of the citizenry. The citizenry has to compete with a service they’re subsidizing.

Immigrants subsidize the citizenry. They pay enormous amounts of taxes, and consume no welfare.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#134

Post by charles_f »

spoonjim wrote: post #96

Layoffs are to clear out people who aren’t wanted or needed anymore. They still need to hire!

Except that it's not how it pans out in fang. Layoffs are non discrete and impact entire orgs, individual performance has rarely anything to do with it

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#135

Post by AmericanChopper »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #130
AmericanChopper wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s actually made substantially worse by the fact that every jurisdiction that you “hire” a remote worker in is another jurisdiction whose laws you have to comply with. An American contractor suing an American company in a Californian court is at least a risk their legal department should know how to manage. An Australian contractor suing an American company in an Australian court, followed up by an Australian labor…

> An Australian contractor suing an American company in an Australian court, followed up by an Australian labor authority taking action against them for say not paying proper sick leave entitlements Does "contractor" mean something different to you than it does to everyone else? This would be like me buying an iPhone and then Apple suing me for not paying proper sick leave entitlements.

It means something different in every location, and I’m just using Australia as a random example. The fact is that channeling your payroll through an offshore company doesn’t allow you to skirt local labor laws. It would be more like you selling me a faulty iPhone, then after realising that my country had consumer protection laws, you were forced to fix it.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#136

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

lr4444lr wrote: post #84
TexanFeller wrote: post #7

Once you switch to full remote, why not hire from Central and South America at maybe 1/4 the price of a Californian.

This specter of this has been raised for over 20 years now, and it never seems to pan out.

COVID-19 forced businesses to cope with remote work and a work force that insists they'll never go back to the office, so it might just start panning out this time.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#137

Post by estebank »

ipaddr wrote: post #120
arcticbull wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s a perfectly logical (if not humane given current immigration law) position to hold that companies should be required to lay off visa holders first and for there to be a “cooling off” period between layoffs and hiring of visa holders. Given these folks could be 10+ year long-term Indian residents of the US with approved I-140s waiting for their priority dates to come up, I'd say this would be incredibly inhuman…

Inhumane would be beating the employees. 10 years at Google will open more doors than the applicant could ever go through

After living and working in a place for 10 years you no longer have "a place to go back," the new place is your home, regardless of whether USCIS and US immigration laws categorize you as a "non-resident alien."

Uprooting people's lives, including that of US nationals (10 years is long enough to meet someone and have kids, even people that do not have a US citizenship or permanent residence either) is not humane. Visa holders have since 2017 a 60 days "grace period" in which H1B Visa holders have to find a new job, while L1 visa holders have that time to pack up and leave.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#138

Post by andrewjl »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #126
kasey_junk wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t necessarily believe this position but not a single one of your points argues against the theory that H1b visas are bad for green card/citizen holders during times of layoffs. It’s a perfectly logical (if not humane given current immigration law) position to hold that companies should be required to lay off visa holders first and for there to be a “cooling off” period between layoffs and hiring of visa holders…

Visas always are bad for citizen workers, full stop. They are always competition blunting the labor market. It is always good to be labor in a labor constrained market, and the lower supply, the better. I don't see how any liberalization could help local workers in the short term (I assume liberalization means expansion in this context).

It's really doubtful whether a labor constrained labor market helps _all_ local workers. Sure, some may see a benefit. Others might see employers cancel projects and reduce planned investments, due to more expensive inputs driven by higher labor costs.

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#139

Post by ajmurmann »

TexanFeller wrote: post #7

Once you switch to full remote, why not hire from Central and South America at maybe 1/4 the price of a Californian.

I hired a team in Colombia and they've been nothing but great. Till the recent tech burst, demand there also was going through the roof and some US companies reportedly started paying in USD to give extra stability to workers there who deal with high inflation. I hope for them that demand there keeps rising and their comp gets closer to US. Great devs and excellent time zone!

Re: Big Tech Resumed Hiring Foreign Workers Just Weeks After Layoffs

#140

Post by andrewjl »

cjbgkagh wrote: post #129
s1artibartfast wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visas always are bad for citizen workers, full stop. They are always competition blunting the labor market. It is always good to be labor in a labor constrained market, and the lower supply, the better. I don't see how any liberalization could help local workers in the short term (I assume liberalization means expansion in this context).

It’s worse than that, it’s the citizenry subsidizing the business as the business can pay less by offering immigration as part of the package which is desirable due to the investments of the citizenry. The citizenry has to compete with a service they’re subsidizing.

What about foreign investors? Or citizens with foreign investments?
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