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Majority of EU countries support scanning of audio communications

euractiv.com

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Re: Majority of EU countries support scanning of audio communications

#21

Post by mrtksn »

nforgerit wrote: post #13

I used to be a convinced pro-European but for me it's getting harder and harder to _not_ believe in some kind of plot for assuming total control over their citizens. Each and every EU regulation concerning "things digital" is pointing to a direction where "freedom" is just an empty buzzword used for virtue signalling against states like China. I am getting seriously concerned about things (not that i haven't been bef…

Wasn't it proven that the US does this since a long time and whistleblowers lives ruined? Obama even has given an apologetic speech for it?

I'm not supporting this but if it will happen I would prefer it happening openly within a legal framework.

I don't get the appeal for it being done by secret services instead of civil services. I guess it's about different relationship with the governments.

Yesterday I saw a tweet from Paul Graham calling European AI startups to pre-emptively move to the US because of some EU regulation draft, today top topics here are about OpenAI speaking with the US government trying to scare them into requiring licensing to work on AI.

Maybe the contrast between US/EU is not as stark as the narrative makes it appear.

Re: Majority of EU countries support scanning of audio communications

#22

Post by andai »

eisstrom wrote: post #8
mikece wrote: post #2

Do any of the EU countries have a legal history of having the right to privacy enshrined in law and custom?

You might be interested in Aritcle 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_8_of_the_European_Conv... ). It was recently used to declare the UK's mass surveillance unlawful ( https://dpglaw.co.uk/european-court-of-human-rights-declares... )

Very interesting. Does this apply to the Dutch "dragnet" surveillance law too?

https://aboutintel.eu/update-dutch-dragnet-act/

Re: Majority of EU countries support scanning of audio communications

#23

Post by throw0101c »

nforgerit wrote: post #13

I used to be a convinced pro-European but for me it's getting harder and harder to _not_ believe in some kind of plot for assuming total control over their citizens. Each and every EU regulation concerning "things digital" is pointing to a direction where "freedom" is just an empty buzzword used for virtue signalling against states like China. I am getting seriously concerned about things (not that i haven't been bef…

> I used to be a convinced pro-European but for me it's getting harder and harder to _not_ believe in some kind of plot for assuming total control over their citizens.

The EU is just catching up to the US:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A

Re: Majority of EU countries support scanning of audio communications

#24

Post by waboremo »

squarefoot wrote: post #15

In a few years, every pedophile will be able to create CSAM material indistinguishable from reality on their computer thanks to AI, therefore they won't need anymore to download it from the Internet. When this will occur, the powers that be could hardly use the protect-the-children argument to spy on citizens, since all material will be virtually created offline. I guess they're struggling to have draconian laws pass…

I don't think this is a good argument as is, because it effectively justifies the draconian laws. Basically if they got all of them to stop taking actions in real life, and exclusively generate content on people who don't exist... then the laws have done their job. They've saved people from harm.

Re: Majority of EU countries support scanning of audio communications

#25

Post by ilyt »

anigbrowl wrote: post #11
ilyt wrote: post #3

It's sad that "think of the children" is still argument that works on some dumbasses.

It's equally sad that privacy advocates (of whom I am one) mostly refuse to acknowledge that CSAM is a real and measurable problem, which specifically exploits children's naïveté and lack of agency. 'Think of the children' should absolutely not be the only decision-making criterion, but it should absolutely be among such criteria.

Sure but it isn't distributed via voice calls on public voice networks...

Re: Majority of EU countries support scanning of audio communications

#26

Post by nforgerit »

mrtksn wrote: post #21
nforgerit wrote: post #13

I used to be a convinced pro-European but for me it's getting harder and harder to _not_ believe in some kind of plot for assuming total control over their citizens. Each and every EU regulation concerning "things digital" is pointing to a direction where "freedom" is just an empty buzzword used for virtue signalling against states like China. I am getting seriously concerned about things (not that i haven't been bef…

Wasn't it proven that the US does this since a long time and whistleblowers lives ruined? Obama even has given an apologetic speech for it? I'm not supporting this but if it will happen I would prefer it happening openly within a legal framework. I don't get the appeal for it being done by secret services instead of civil services. I guess it's about different relationship with the governments. Yesterday I saw a twee…

Yeah I was always thinking the same. They must be jealous about the enormous surveillance power that accumulated in the US for over 2 decades.

Thing is: If the strategy is to have total surveillance based on an open legal framework then they should actively market it as that. I _might_ even agree with that. But given they're BSing us with "protect the children" I cannot help but see them as bad actors doing stupid/evil sh*t.

Re: Majority of EU countries support scanning of audio communications

#27

Post by nforgerit »

throw0101c wrote: post #23
nforgerit wrote: post #13

I used to be a convinced pro-European but for me it's getting harder and harder to _not_ believe in some kind of plot for assuming total control over their citizens. Each and every EU regulation concerning "things digital" is pointing to a direction where "freedom" is just an empty buzzword used for virtue signalling against states like China. I am getting seriously concerned about things (not that i haven't been bef…

> I used to be a convinced pro-European but for me it's getting harder and harder to _not_ believe in some kind of plot for assuming total control over their citizens. The EU is just catching up to the US: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A

You mean catching up to government paranoia initiated by 9/11 which led to 2 unnecessary wars, never seen before government surveillance and destabilization of the middle east. Great job, let's do the same!

Re: Majority of EU countries support scanning of audio communications

#28

Post by cccbbbaaa »

eisstrom wrote: post #8
mikece wrote: post #2

Do any of the EU countries have a legal history of having the right to privacy enshrined in law and custom?

You might be interested in Aritcle 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_8_of_the_European_Conv... ). It was recently used to declare the UK's mass surveillance unlawful ( https://dpglaw.co.uk/european-court-of-human-rights-declares... )

See also Articles 7 and 8 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union (https://www.europarl.europa.eu/charter/pdf/text_en.pdf). (side note, the ECHR is why European countries have strong privacy laws since the '70s.)

The EDPS recently said that under the Charter, the infamous “Chat Control” would always be illegal in the EU: https://www.euractiv.com/section/law-enforcement/news/eu-wat....

Re: Majority of EU countries support scanning of audio communications

#29

Post by mrtksn »

nforgerit wrote: post #26
mrtksn wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't it proven that the US does this since a long time and whistleblowers lives ruined? Obama even has given an apologetic speech for it? I'm not supporting this but if it will happen I would prefer it happening openly within a legal framework. I don't get the appeal for it being done by secret services instead of civil services. I guess it's about different relationship with the governments. Yesterday I saw a twee…

Yeah I was always thinking the same. They must be jealous about the enormous surveillance power that accumulated in the US for over 2 decades. Thing is: If the strategy is to have total surveillance based on an open legal framework then they should actively market it as that. I _might_ even agree with that. But given they're BSing us with "protect the children" I cannot help but see them as bad actors doing stupid/ev…

[dead]

Re: Majority of EU countries support scanning of audio communications

#30

Post by someweirdperson »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #10

This is a terrible headline. It gives impression that the majority of electorate supports this. Or maybe majority of their respective parliaments does. But it's just the executive branch of the EU itself- "A majority of the EU Council of Ministers". More or less, each government selects a minister to represent them in this council. The article should really be reporting on how this bill is progressing. I am no legal…

> I am not sure what happens if it is found unconstitutional in some of the countries concerned.

I am sure that we are not going to bring those to justice that create law that is found unconstitutional.

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