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Texas professor fails entire class from graduating- claiming they used ChatGTP

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Re: Texas professor fails entire class from graduating- claiming they used ChatGTP

#181

Post by Throw73849 »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #167
Throw73849 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a calculator, but can explain concepts in math pretty well. It does not lie about well documented facts, such as basic university course. It needs a lot of training data. And if student can not recognize their teacher is bullshiting them, there is a bigger problem.

> And if student can not recognize their teacher is bullshiting them If it's a learner's first exposure to a topic what indicators can they use to identify that ChatGPT is lying to them?

The same indicators they would use with teacher? Studyig is about reading books, comparing sources. Not copying notes.

At university if you discover teacher is lying, you may get prosecuted, expelled, and loose $100k on student loans.

Edit: response to your other comment, I am being rationed by HN

As I said, ChatGPT is good at answering and explaining questions. It can replace teacher as "explainer", not as some sort of dogmatic source of truth. Text book does not answer questions, ChatGPT does! If some section of textbook is too vague to understand, you may ask questions to get better understanding!

Re: Texas professor fails entire class from graduating- claiming they used ChatGTP

#183

Post by masswerk »

anotheryou wrote: post #35
masswerk wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what you get by hyping ChatGPT without making clear what it does, can do, and can not do.

This is what you get if you can't make teachers embrace technology. Make it mandatory to use chatGPT for writing aid, do live tests to prove true knowledge.

For years, we've had a strong trend to make even the basic workings of a computer appear like magic and users not bothering how it does what. Now it may be a bit too much to expect a teacher to understand how LLMs work and what the consequences are. (E.g., do they know how a file system works, what happens, when they move a document from one folder to another?) – We may have to revise how we present computers and how they should be perceived, from pseudo-magic ease of use to ease of understanding, what is done and how this is achieved.

Re: Texas professor fails entire class from graduating- claiming they used ChatGTP

#184

Post by Chinjut »

dmd wrote: post #179
Chinjut wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does anyone trust ChatGPT to correctly answer this question? It's a text prediction engine, not an all purpose correct answer generator. A yes or a no answer is the sort of text that would follow a question like this, certainly.

They don't. That's the point being made.

Yes, I see in retrospect I was misinterpreting the comment I was replying to and have edited it slightly accordingly.

Re: Texas professor fails entire class from graduating- claiming they used ChatGTP

#185

Post by ngngngng »

Is there a difference between cheating in school and hacking school? I think so. I almost never studied for math tests in University. They were all multiple choice and I found it easy to logic out the only possible answer to the question just by looking at the choices. Worst case if I was in a hurry I'd get a B on an exam. I wasn't looking up the answers and skipping any work. I was just arriving at the prescribed optimal outcome (a good grade) without following the schools preferred method.

This is what AI feels like to me. It's a very useful, but very flawed tool. In its current state, if I try and make it do my work for me, I'm going to have a very bad time. It's a "hack", not a "cheat." It's a new way of doing work, not a replacement for work.

Re: Texas professor fails entire class from graduating- claiming they used ChatGTP

#186

Post by yamtaddle »

reaperman wrote: post #101
sidewndr46 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who was a student over a decade ago, I'd lose my fucking mind if I had to use physical books. There was simply not enough time to go get books off the shelf and complete all my assignments. Everything was done digitally, I can't think of a single exception in college. I once turned in a math exam written using LaTeX and the professor initially declined to grade it. I did concede that I hadn't followed the…

libgen.rs or Z-Library bridges the gap for most students by providing free digital versions of almost all physical textbooks. Thanks to these resources, requiring physical book citations would not be an onerous requirement at any point in the past ten years.

Google Books excerpts are enough if you just need to mine citations. Write from Wikipedia or other informal sources—or from just a single book—then find your citations on Google Books by searching for specific info in your paper (you don't want to just cite Wikipedia's citations—some teachers and professors are wise to that). Cut my paper-writing time to less than half, if you factor in the time to go find books in the library. I love libgen, but search on Google Books can take you straight to the page you need. Give it a skim to make sure it's relevant, auto-generate the professor's preferred citation formatting somewhere, done. Works like a charm for light-duty make-work undergrad papers where reading multiple sources is kinda redundant because they're all gonna say basically the same stuff anyway.

Re: Texas professor fails entire class from graduating- claiming they used ChatGTP

#187

Post by insanitybit »

adjav wrote: post #80
insanitybit wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ChatGPT can cite physical textbooks though

It can certainly make up things that look like citations. It definitely cannot produce a series of valid inline citations for specific quotes, rephrasings, or statistics.

Why do you think it can't do that?

Re: Texas professor fails entire class from graduating- claiming they used ChatGTP

#188

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

Throw73849 wrote: post #181
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And if student can not recognize their teacher is bullshiting them If it's a learner's first exposure to a topic what indicators can they use to identify that ChatGPT is lying to them?

The same indicators they would use with teacher? Studyig is about reading books, comparing sources. Not copying notes. At university if you discover teacher is lying, you may get prosecuted, expelled, and loose $100k on student loans. Edit: response to your other comment, I am being rationed by HN As I said, ChatGPT is good at answering and explaining questions. It can replace teacher as "explainer", not as some sort…

If it's the case where you're going to other sources, why use ChatGPT at all? It doesn't source its information so you can't actually confirm without reading other sources which do source their information. Why would I care to learn German from ChatGPT when I could use a textbook that has had editors and subject matter experts vet that it won't lie to me? What is unique and useful about ChatGPT that's not also a weakness?

> At university if you discover teacher is lying, you may get prosecuted, expelled, and loose $100k on student loans.

Sorry, you're saying that the student will lose that?

This is my response to your edit:

> As I said, ChatGPT is good at answering and explaining questions. It can replace teacher as "explainer", not as some sort of dogmatic source of truth. Text book does not answer questions, ChatGPT does! If some section of textbook is too vague to understand, you may ask questions to get better understanding!

But if the explanation is lies and you need to go to a source to verify that ChatGPT just didn't lie to you, how is it of value?

Re: Texas professor fails entire class from graduating- claiming they used ChatGTP

#189

Post by emptysongglass »

circuit10 wrote: post #138
emptysongglass wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't "know" either. We continue to anthromopomorphize these models, which put uncredited doomsayers like Eliezer Yudkowsky on a pedestal.

What’s wrong with the word “know”? And with Eliezer Yudkowsky?

He's a self-appointed expert who is neither an AI researcher, computer scientist, or any other accredited title you'd expect someone loudly yelling, “WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE” on a technical topic like the fundamentals of AI and its dangers to hold.

You and others continue to foist human qualities on LLMs because it looks like magic. To know is to know oneself. LLMs do not know themselves. In fact, there is no “self” to know.

Re: Texas professor fails entire class from graduating- claiming they used ChatGTP

#190

Post by insanitybit »

rjmunro wrote: post #106
adjav wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can certainly make up things that look like citations. It definitely cannot produce a series of valid inline citations for specific quotes, rephrasings, or statistics.

It sometimes can if it has those books in it's training set. But it won't tell you it doesn't know, it will hallucinate a citation that doesn't exist.

> But it won't tell you it doesn't know, it will hallucinate a citation that doesn't exist.

Maybe but I've had ChatGPT tell me it doesn't know many things.

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